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Old toomuchjewelry

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Are I1 diamonds really all that bad???
Quote this post and reply to it Post#1 @ 08-25-07 , 05:45 PM


Can you all give me your experiences/good and bad with I1 diamonds? I did a search on google, and they are really talked down and made to sound dull, crusty and lifeless.

Also on ebay, there are a lot of I1 rated diamonds that look REALLY REALLY bad...most of those are of course clarity enhanced SI2, SI3 and I1. I don't understand how they can call these I1 when they look like that. Last year I bought and returned immediately a clarity enhanced SI3 pear on a pendant that was 2.5 carats. It was frozen monkey spit...so white and cloudy that you couldn't even distinguish the facets! I did see some natural I1s while I was looking that there is no way they can be I1...they look like promotional grade or very dark with black scattered all over. Not what I'd consider to be a true I1 rating.

I thought an I1 was supposed to have one visible inclusion, and the rest scattered and not all that easily seen.

Don't nice I1 diamonds exist? Is it possible to find a natural I1 diamond that is brilliant, well cut and most of the imperfections hidden at the sides or down at the bottom where you can't really see them? If this were to exist, what might the inclusions look like and where would they be?

I'd love to hear what you all have to say!

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Re: Are I1 diamonds really all that bad???
Quote this post and reply to it Post#2 @ 08-25-07 , 06:15 PM


I believe they do. I happen to own a fancy intense yellow radiant that is graded I1. Now the jeweler that graded this diamond said that he likes to error on the side of caution and grade the clarity on the slight of the lower end rather than be misrepresented and grade it too high. It has nothing but sparkle. That true crushed bucket of ice look. If i look very very very closely i can see the small carbon speck, and a teeny tiny "bubble" but its very very hard to do without a loupe. There are fabulous diamonds out there with I1 clarity grades but i guarantee they arent at the mall. I see great diamonds here all the time

P.S MY RING IS FOR SALE as i have found an incredible diamond that i want to buy with a less than perfect clarity grade

Last edited by AZsparkleGal : 08-25-07 at 06:22 PM.
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Re: Are I1 diamonds really all that bad???
Quote this post and reply to it Post#3 @ 08-27-07 , 05:23 PM


HI:

This year, I bought earrings set with I1 stones. The ctw is around 2.12, H & I color, and the stones are beautiful, as they are AGS 0's (and branded stones). They are mad sparklers, and the only time I see inclusions is when I loop them. Honestly!!

Some I1's you do not need to fear!

cheers--Sharon

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I just had this discussion at my jeweler
Quote this post and reply to it Post#4 @ 08-27-07 , 05:48 PM


I was there to drop of my DH bracelet that needs repair and was looking at diamond tennis barcelets.I asled about color and clarity and was told they were I-J and I1 clarity ( 9 carat)
Without louping it I could not see any inclusions although next to my diamond ring ( D color) I could see a lesser quality color.
I wondered why they wouldn't be graded as S1 because truthfully even the jeweler needed to loupe them and also used a scope machine, so I laughed and said I was hoping he could teach me how to be a better "louper" and he said after 35 years even he cannot see them without a loupe ,but with a loupe you can see carbon, and feathers so he graded it I1.
Maybe he is just a tough grader .He said that if the stones were larger like 50 points each instead of like 20 points you'd see it clearer.

So now I wonder is just easier to see a small incluions in a larger stone and therefore they are graded more harshly or is it just if its visible under a loupe enough to call a stone I1 or worse.
I thought all I1's were visible by naked eye.
maybe my eyes are so bad I can not see I1's anymore?


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Re: I just had this discussion at my jeweler
Quote this post and reply to it Post#5 @ 08-28-07 , 12:48 PM


Quote:
Originally Posted by maven
I thought all I1's were visible by naked eye.
maybe my eyes are so bad I can not see I1's anymore?



Nope, it's not your eyes. Diamond grading is done under 10 power magnification and generally with a stereo microscope, so when grading you're getting a very close 3D view of the stone. There are lots of stones which have low clarity grades and are still what would be considered "eye clean" by most people when they're looking at the stone from a foot or two away. If a stone is milky or is "frozen spit" it would almost be required to be at best and I3 and probably more likely something that should have been an industrial stone. You can get some really great I1's that will look great when mounted, since the grade setting inclusions can be partially hidden with a prong. You can also get a really poor looking I1 with an inclusion that's small but located down near the culet causing that inclusion to become a "reflector"...making it look like eight inclusions instead of one.

The clarity grade of the diamonds that you buy should be somewhat dictated by where they'll be worn and be a balancing act between your budget and your tastes,(yeah it can be tough). If you're buying for earrings or a necklace you can get away with a much lower clarity grade, since very few people will be close enough to see any inclusions, (and if they are that close, they probably won't be looking too closely at the diamonds anyway). If you're buying for a ring you can still get some great buys in the I1 and SI2 clarity grades by asking the person that you're buying from to find you a stone that'll be eye clean once mounted. The key here is in being able to ask someone that will actually take the time to find and look at some stones for you and find one that's suitable. You can't do it by pouring over Internet diamond lists or even looking at pictures in most cases. You really need to talk to your vendor and they need to do some looking and digging to get this sort of stone for you. If you have patience, and a vendor that will do this for you, it's certainly worth it, as you can get the look of a diamond in a much higher clarity grade for 1/3 to 1/2 the price.


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Re: Are I1 diamonds really all that bad???
Quote this post and reply to it Post#6 @ 08-28-07 , 01:02 PM


Here's a good example. This diamond is an oval weighing 1.02 carats and it's a bit spready, meaning a little shallow and wider than normal. It's a stone that I'd grade an I2 since it has several white internal inclusions, a small pit in the table and numerous black specks of pepper. This shot shows somewhat the view that you'd see at 10 power magnification.


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Re: Are I1 diamonds really all that bad???
Quote this post and reply to it Post#7 @ 08-28-07 , 01:13 PM


Here's a typical shot showing what this stone would look like under different lighting or perhaps against clothing. As you can see the spots and inclusions pretty much disappear into the different contrasts of the lighting in this image. Now imagine that you're 2 feet away and this stone looks ten times smaller. The stone would look eye clean. If we're an unscrupulous seller we can put this on E-bay with the better picture, (maybe even a little blue in the background), call it an SI3 and eye clean at that. WoooHooo, we've just doubled it's value !

The reality of the deal is that these types of stones sell for very little, look decent in the right situations and have their place for the right person and budget. Jump up to an I1 or SI2 which has been selected properly and you can have a real winner.


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Re: Are I1 diamonds really all that bad???
Quote this post and reply to it Post#8 @ 08-28-07 , 01:37 PM


I have 3 "lower clarity" diamonds: An SI2, an I2 and an I1.

I am VERY HAPPY with my SI2. It came with a full GIA report. It is completely eye-clean. You can't see the inclusions without a loupe....and it still has tons of sparkle.

I am VERY HAPPY with my I2 too. It came with a full GIA report. It is NOT eye-clean, but most of the inclusions are off to the left hand side, so it still has some nice sparkle to it. It's a Fancy Brownish Purple-Pink.......the only way I could ever afford a diamond of that color, was one with lower clarity. But I still love it!

My 3rd diamond was sold as an I1, but didn't come with a full GIA report, only a GIA color origin report. It's cute, but is a bit cloudy & does have visible carbon. I'm actually more impressed with my I2 than my I1.......so you do have to be careful when buying an "included" diamond.

I think you can find some really nice I1's out there.....you just have to search a little.

If I bought another I1, I'd make sure it had a *full* GIA report and many close-up pictures.......so you know exactly what you're buying.

Good luck.

Amy

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Re: Are I1 diamonds really all that bad???
Quote this post and reply to it Post#9 @ 09-01-07 , 09:47 AM


Quote:
Originally Posted by toomuchjewelry
Is it possible to find a natural I1 diamond that is brilliant, well cut and most of the imperfections hidden at the sides or down at the bottom where you can't really see them? If this were to exist, what might the inclusions look like and where would they be?

They exist. Center stone is very eyeclen 1.01 H I1, 6.3 x 6.4 x unknown, no fluor. Definitely e-ring worth. The inclusions are (gasp) black & gray "snot," right beside but not covered by a prong, at either a little past 8 o'clock or a little before 2 o'clock. I forget which way the ring was oriented for this photo. I have to turn it sideways and look at the girdle closely to see the inclusions. The table is clean. I'd rather have an I1 with a few very small black peppers in insignificant locations, than an I1 with a boatload of large white inclusions.

You have to be careful about "prongable inclusion," especially with a modern hearts 7 arrows. Yes, it might be prongable, but will the arrows point the way you'd prefer them, and will the the table facet still be aligned right? Or will the diamond end up looking cockeyed? With mine cut, Old European, or non H&A, it might not matter how you rotate the stone.

The cat hair doesn't affect the grade. :-)

Last edited by AdaBeta27 : 09-01-07 at 09:57 AM.
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Re: Are I1 diamonds really all that bad???
Quote this post and reply to it Post#10 @ 09-01-07 , 10:01 AM


one might look like this



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Re: Are I1 diamonds really all that bad???
Quote this post and reply to it Post#11 @ 09-01-07 , 07:42 PM


On thing is sure... I1 diamond is really really difficult to resell!

It does not matter that it is beautiful and without imperfection visible with the naked eye, people so much intended to say that I1 is ugly, that they do not buy them from a private seller.

I have a superb I1 and it's impossible to sell it. The price is very low and despite everything person does want it! I will not remake the same error twice. Next diamond that I will buy will have a higher grade, minimum SI1.


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Re: Are I1 diamonds really all that bad???
Quote this post and reply to it Post#12 @ 09-03-07 , 08:39 PM


Quote:
Originally Posted by stci
On thing is sure... I1 diamond is really really difficult to resell!

It does not matter that it is beautiful and without imperfection visible with the naked eye, people so much intended to say that I1 is ugly, that they do not buy them from a private seller.

I have a superb I1 and it's impossible to sell it. The price is very low and despite everything person does want it! I will not remake the same error twice. Next diamond that I will buy will have a higher grade, minimum SI1.


Well, if it's going to be so difficult to sell, I might just have to hang onto mine, LOL. ;-)

Your problem is not that it's I1. Your ad lacks crown & pavillion angles and lacks a GIA or similar report that evaluates cut quality. If you had the photos, the report, and the specs that prove it's superb, it wouldn't be hard to sell. There are badly cut diamonds of every clarity grade. Your burden is to prove yours is well cut, it's white, and it's eyeclean. The video is nice for people who have high speed Internet, but lots of people still use dialup and can't load a video over that.

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Re: Are I1 diamonds really all that bad???
Quote this post and reply to it Post#13 @ 09-03-07 , 09:14 PM


Quote:
Originally Posted by AdaBeta27
Well, if it's going to be so difficult to sell, I might just have to hang onto mine, LOL. ;-)

Your problem is not that it's I1. Your ad lacks crown & pavillion angles and lacks a GIA or similar report that evaluates cut quality. If you had the photos, the report, and the specs that prove it's superb, it wouldn't be hard to sell. There are badly cut diamonds of every clarity grade. Your burden is to prove yours is well cut, it's white, and it's eyeclean. The video is nice for people who have high speed Internet, but lots of people still use dialup and can't load a video over that.


There is one thing that you don't think. I'm not in USA and obtain a GIA certificate is really complicated and expensive. I've ask a price very low and the video is the best way to show the diamond. If you can navigate on Internet today with a dialup connexion, you're smart. I don't think it's a problem for the majority and the pics of the diamond are clear.


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Re: Are I1 diamonds really all that bad???
Quote this post and reply to it Post#14 @ 09-08-07 , 09:48 AM


I'm sure this is a newb question (but hey, i'm a newb) but do stones that fall in the I1, I2 categories have structural problems? meaning, do they have more of a chance to chip/break? Asking because I've been told this by a few 47th street jewelers (in ny) when I was looking for a pendant.

elle

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Re: Are I1 diamonds really all that bad???
Quote this post and reply to it Post#15 @ 09-08-07 , 06:00 PM


Sometimes inclusions can be problematic in setting a diamond. If the inclusion is severe enough, any pressure applied while setting the stone could open it up and cause it to break. I'd be especially wary of open inclusions.

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Re: Are I1 diamonds really all that bad???
Quote this post and reply to it Post#16 @ 09-08-07 , 06:16 PM


So depending on the inclusion and if it breaks the surface, this could be an issue for SI's as well?

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Re: Are I1 diamonds really all that bad???
Quote this post and reply to it Post#17 @ 09-08-07 , 06:52 PM


Technically speaking, yes. Our jewelers work under 40x magnification, so they can see inclusions (SI or I) and they know when to back off on the pressure. But many jewelers still set by "feel" when the prong touches and tightens down over the stone. When those jewelers try to place the inclusions under a prong to hide it, that's a risky proposition. Even with magnification it's risky, but it's done all the time.
I know we've had issues with more stressful setting like bezels or flushsetting - my husband occasionally refuses to set a diamond with inclusions that could open up.

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Re: Are I1 diamonds really all that bad???
Quote this post and reply to it Post#18 @ 09-08-07 , 06:57 PM


I should add to my comments that I have seen some absolutely beautiful included diamonds. We had one years ago that had a big black inclusion right under the table! But it was such a great cut and incredible polish that you really couldn't see it unless you really looked for it, and it was an amazing stone for the money - well within his budget. But the customer's fiancee rejected it for an engagement ring - too far from perfect for her tastes. Sadly the relationship did not last either.
Generally speaking, I have advocated I-clarity grades for folks with a tight budget, so long as the stone is pretty and the inclusions do not affect the structural integrity of the diamond.

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Re: Are I1 diamonds really all that bad???
Quote this post and reply to it Post#19 @ 09-08-07 , 10:37 PM


Thanks very much for answering. Wondering if I can pick your brain one more time
Regarding clouds- I've read that in stones graded S1 or lower, they can affect the brilliancy of the diamond. Especially in stones where the clouds set the grade. Is there any truth to that statement?

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Re: Are I1 diamonds really all that bad???
Quote this post and reply to it Post#20 @ 09-11-07 , 12:04 PM


Quote:
Originally Posted by AdaBeta27
They exist. Center stone is very eyeclen 1.01 H I1, 6.3 x 6.4 x unknown, no fluor. Definitely e-ring worth. The inclusions are (gasp) black & gray "snot," right beside but not covered by a prong, at either a little past 8 o'clock or a little before 2 o'clock. I forget which way the ring was oriented for this photo. I have to turn it sideways and look at the girdle closely to see the inclusions. The table is clean. I'd rather have an I1 with a few very small black peppers in insignificant locations, than an I1 with a boatload of large white inclusions.

You have to be careful about "prongable inclusion," especially with a modern hearts 7 arrows. Yes, it might be prongable, but will the arrows point the way you'd prefer them, and will the the table facet still be aligned right? Or will the diamond end up looking cockeyed? With mine cut, Old European, or non H&A, it might not matter how you rotate the stone.

The cat hair doesn't affect the grade. :-)


I love the design of your ring!!

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Re: Are I1 diamonds really all that bad???
Quote this post and reply to it Post#21 @ 09-11-07 , 12:55 PM


Hey Nycelle~
Yes, clouds can affect the brilliance of a diamond. If you think of the facets of a diamond as mirrors, a "cloud" is like a sheer silk veil draped across the mirror. It prevents some of the light from being reflected and transferred back out of the diamond. The whole trick to getting a good I-grade diamond is the nature and placement of the inclusion(s).

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Re: Are I1 diamonds really all that bad???
Quote this post and reply to it Post#22 @ 09-13-07 , 05:03 PM


Barry, thanks for the link. Beautiful I1.

AttyJewelermom1, so as far as clouds go, they can affect the brilliance. That's what I was interested in knowing. Thank you for answering

Elle

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Re: Are I1 diamonds really all that bad???
Quote this post and reply to it Post#23 @ 09-15-07 , 09:45 PM


Quote:
Originally Posted by Itbit
I love the design of your ring!!


Thanks! I bought the solitaire on a plain Tiffany, and then found a used ring guard. I saw a set that had a ring guard combined with a '40s square-shouldered or winged-out sidestones that extended across the finger and stood up a little above the ring guard. I thought that combo looked really good, and unusual. I patiently looked around stores, remount shows, etc, until I finally got a deal on the vintage look I wanted. The sidestone setting is new, but looks vintage.

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Re: Are I1 diamonds really all that bad???
Quote this post and reply to it Post#24 @ 01-23-10 , 12:00 PM


Just found this thread about I1 diamonds. My 1930's art deco ring is an I1 and the colour is G, I've been looking at it today through a 14x loupe and its bizarre, I can see some feathers and possibly carbon but as you turn the ring in your fingers they go away, at some angles you can't see them at all. Not sure if this is how inclusions behave. Anyway, just wanted to say even though its an I1 its a lovely diamond and everyone comments how sparkly it is, I have renamed it my firecracker

I will admit after purchasing and then doing some research I became really concerned about the I1, only because you can see the inclusions with the naked eye in daylight. It all depends on how this will bother you but I can live with them, of course we would all like something flawless but somebody pointed out to me in another thread on here about my ring that diamonds do have 'clarity characteristics' so I am happy with that.

If I was purchasing again, I would probably go for a better clarity but at the end of the day it all depends on what you fall in love with.

Here's some pics for you.

Last edited by Donna5 : 01-23-10 at 12:18 PM.
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Re: Are I1 diamonds really all that bad???
Quote this post and reply to it Post#25 @ 01-24-10 , 09:00 PM


Donna5, Thanks for bringing up a interesting thread, I wanted to say I love your ring!!! Love the deco styling! I had a diamond that was a I1 that had a fairly large carbon spot but it seemed to make the light reflect in a interesting way almost a hearts and arrows thing and it was lovely. I think your ring like you said, it has it's own characteristics and it looks perfect to me! Congratulations!

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