Big breakthrough in Synthetic Diamond technology for Apollo

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Big breakthrough in Synthetic Diamond technology for Apollo

Post#1 @ 04-13-07 , 02:55 AM

Some big news from Apollo Diamonds:
via Tacy

Quote:

APPOLLO: THE WORLD'S ONLY EVER-LASTING "DIAMOND MINE"

13 April 2007
CHAIM EVEN-ZOHAR

While most diamond merchants are wondering why we don’t see the long-awaited avalanche of Apollo synthetic (cultured) gem quality rough or polished on the market, the scientists and the marketing people at the company’s Boston-area headquarters couldn’t be more elated about their progress. They are celebrating a technological breakthrough which, in journalistic jargon, has made Apollo a perpetual diamond mine --- with a mining life that lasts forever, something no natural diamond mine can claim.

The new technological developments will dramatically impact the volume and type of diamonds the company will produce. Dr. Robert (Bob) and Bryant Linares, looking back on their first three years of commercial production of high quality diamonds, mostly in a D-L color range and of the highest purity, and also at technological achievements, believe their “best case scenario” set in 2004, has by far exceeded their expectations.

What triggers the excitement? The CVD synthetic growth process starts with a “seed” (as substrate) of pure diamond that is placed on a pedestal in a depressurized chamber which is then injected with methane and hydrogen gas. The chamber is then heated with a microwave beam, forming plasma. In the next phase, carbon atoms are deposited on the diamond “seeds” (substrates) which then spur growth of the synthetic diamond on the seed.

New “mini-bricks” (wafers) of diamonds are created. So, what is the cause of the enthusiasm? In the past, the “seeds”, essentially the raw material needed to synthesize diamonds, consisted of natural diamonds or certain synthetic materials (HPHT) produced by other companies. It was very hard to find the natural rough diamonds (generally over one carat in the highest gem qualities) that were needed to serve as “seeds”. Whatever the seed material used, Apollo depended on outside rough suppliers to secure their needs and they found themselves totally dependent on a few third parties.

Whether by coincidence or design, after Apollo commenced its commercial production, it seemed as if rough producers were withholding the seed-appropriate diamonds from the market. In order to grow large rough synthetic diamonds, the natural diamond that would provide the “seed” also needed to be quite large, often in the 3 to 5 carat range.

One of the major technological challenges facing Apollo in 2004 was to secure sufficient quantities of natural diamonds needed as “seeds”. Not any more. Bryant Linares showed me a laboratory-made seed of 30mm length and some 8mm width. Technically, however, they can almost make any size. With considerable excitement, Linares explains that Apollo has now become truly self-sustainable and independent. Apollo can create its own “raw materials” to make D-flawless large synthetic (he calls them “cultured”) diamonds. There is no longer any major limit on either shape or volume. Moreover, the company can now use one seed for the manufacturing of multiple stones.

It has become truly “independent”. No other player in the diamond market can deny them raw diamond materials. As some suppliers were also potential competitors, the importance of this independence cannot be stressed enough – it makes the company master of its destiny.

Engaging the Industry in Dialogue

Generally, when a science-based product is in development stage, companies are careful not to launch their creation prematurely. Apollo consciously went another route. In order to commence a dialogue with the diamond industry, Apollo decided to publicly announce the planned commencement of commercial production when it allowed the publication of the Wired article in 2003, followed by a Sixty Minutes television documentary in 2004, and a Newsweek cover story in 2005, alongside articles in the diamond trade press and other media. It offered samples for gemological research.

The company sought the publicity to demonstrate to the industry that they’d become part of it without upsetting the market. That publicity, with the benefit of hindsight, may have been too early and may have caused both exaggerated fears on the one hand, and expedited the efforts of potential competitors – mostly De Beers – to accelerate their own research and development programs on the other. The company’s openness toward the industry has largely failed to reach the objective – and, with a clean conscious, the company considers itself “free” to set its own marketing strategy.

The diamond industry may have failed to appreciate that the establishment of a new industry requires the interaction of various different actors. Also, product development has a lengthy timeline, which is not always predictable. One must develop processes and engineering capabilities to manufacture the diamond product; then there is the development of marketing programs regarding volume and nature of output; then there is intellectual property, its protection, as well as operational issues. Finally, there are financing considerations. Naturally, the company didn’t publish a list of problems it was facing when it initially disclosed its plans. Instead, attaining “independency” of seeds – to become totally self-sustainable - was one of the highest priorities.

And this has now been achieved.

Capability to Produce Rough by Order

“Diamond manufacturers will have to rethink their uses of rough, their attitude to rough, and their expectations from their suppliers,” explains Linares. “If there is a demand for certain sizes of polished, or certain specific cuts (princess, emerald, or whatever), the controls over our seeds will enable us to make the right rough from which to cut the desired polished. We can greatly minimize the yield loss.” This has many implications. If there are selective rough supply shortages in the market, the full production capacity can center on a specific article and fill the vacuum. That is one of the results of the company’s ability to produce its own seeds.

There is still more to it. Studying the intensive research done on the product’s “value proposition”, it is expected, for example, that in the small melees ranges, many manufacturers will prefer the synthetic rough. They will have access to rough with higher yields, with a tremendous degree of consistency, and with custom-made sizes and shapes of rough. In these ranges, the price differential is expected to be minimal (about 10-15 percent below the natural counterparts, provided that there are natural diamonds available.)

We were shown a detailed model of Apollo’s value projections throughout the range of goods, and the supporting evidence for the assumptions, but this was presented as confidential background information. It seems that the company has thoroughly studied the future supply and demand scenarios facing world diamond jewelry markets over the next ten years, and has targets as to what share they believe they’ll be able to supply.

Pricing is an intriguing subject. In 2006 and 2007, the company commenced sales of cultured diamond-set jewelry. The primary sales channels are through the Internet (directly to consumers) and through retail outlets, mostly through Boston’s Bostonian Jewelers. “Our high quality diamonds are sold for up to 15 percent below the natural equivalent, but there have been quite a few instances where our goods demanded a premium over the comparable natural counterparts,” revealed Linares. A subsequent visit to the jewelry store, where I first posed as an interested buyer, confirmed the minimal price differentials.

Detection Becoming More Difficult

Apollo was reluctant to discuss the ability of GIA, De Beers or other organizations to detect whether a diamond is Apollo or natural. Apollo’s engineers are continuously improving the technology. I was shown pink, orange, and -brown polished diamonds which were said to have escaped detection by available gemological equipment. Like any other diamond mine, Apollo’s output is far from uniform. There are also inferior qualities which are presently stockpiled or earmarked for non-gem market uses.

In the total range of goods, there are certain categories where the cultured origins are easier to detect, while in others, it is virtually impossible.

To Apollo, this is not an issue. They will disclose that their diamonds are “cultured”, and, for the time being, they are only selling polished. No efforts are made to “add” a substance to ease detection, while it is also not a policy to try to make the synthetic origins of the goods undetectable. “This is not an issue on which we are spending resources,” said the company. “To us there is no relevancy to that question.”

Could, theoretically, the product be made fully undistinguishable from the natural counterpart? The indirect answer was that these are purely scientific and engineering questions to which one could put one’s mind, if one wanted to. There is, however, no such intention. It is clear, however, that irrespective of statements to the contrary, today some of Apollo’s cultured polished diamonds cannot be detected as such.

Selling Rough to Manufacturers

The company is now subcontracting the rough to manufacturers in North America, India, and Asia. “We wanted to manufacture in Israel and some limited trials there gave good results. But industry and government are creating administrative obstacles, thus we went to other centers,” noted the younger Linarus, almost regretfully.

In terms of volume, which is another proprietary piece of information, the company confirmed that rough production was in the tens of thousands of carats in 2006. But it didn’t have the “own seed” capacity and a large part of the production was not suitable for cutting. This is exactly the area where product development comes in. “Today, a far larger part of our output is suitable for polishing – and this part is only increasing over time. Compared to natural mining production, we are moving from a product distribution of a regular mine, to that of a mostly a high quality larger size producer,” says the company. Current sales are only in the better qualities.

“We have definite marketing plans which are tied to our levels of production. It is fair to say that we expect that five years from now, some 80 percent of our production will be sold as rough diamonds to overseas manufacturers.”

Apollo’s management seems acutely aware of forecasts of rough diamond supply shortages. The expected gap between supply and demand for diamond jewelry by the end of the decade may be in the range of $7 billion. There is no reason why cultured diamonds will not provide at least $2 billion of that gap.

The reliability of supplies in precise sizes, colors, quality, and shapes will ease the entry of synthetics into the market, providing an alternative in times of shortage.

A recent presentation by Apollo management in Mumbai caused an avalanche of applications by local dealers to become Apollo dealers or contractors. “In the manufacturing of products in which the technology is still being improved every day, we are hesitating to go for mass volume prematurely. But we are very close to that moment.”

Financial Investors have Comfort Levels

I queried about their financial situation, recalling that in 2004 the company was in the capital markets looking for investors to finance the development of a large number of diamond producing machines. “A few years ago, many of the technological challenges had yet to be proven. The money we were looking for was considered risk-money as we were unable to show that we were having a sustainable long-term business proposition.

“This has dramatically changed. Not only that we have solved the outstanding technological issues, but we also have been able to test the markets. We have now absolutely certainty that there is considerable demand for our products, at a price level which is fairly aligned to the curves of natural demand. Today, access to capital is the least of our problems.”

Apollo Diamond Inc. is a Delaware-incorporated private company. Though declining a question about future plans, I received the distinct impression that management sees the company as a suitable candidate for eventually going public. “We have reached proven long-term sustainability for our product and thus long-term survivability of our company. That makes Apollo attractive,” said the spokesman, in a non-committal manner. It was my sense that the emphasis, however is on the word “eventually”.

General Market Developments in Apollo’s Favor

Management is closely following the shift of manufacturing natural diamonds to the source countries in Africa, where processing costs are higher than in Asia. As Apollo or its rough clients will be able to manufacture anywhere they feel it most viable, the polishing process of Apollo’s synthetics may end up being cheaper than that of natural diamonds. Not just because of labor costs, but because of the very precise “custom-made” assortments of rough that the company will be able to provide.

The name De Beers hardly came up in two separate meetings I spoke this week with various members of management. The company shares the expectation that De Beers will at some point become a serious – and certainly the dominant – player in the synthetic gem quality markets. When isn’t clear.

My expectation is that De Beers will recognize that there will be a gap between rough supply and demand and that it will want to become the Supplier of Choice for synthetics as well. If I had to make a guess, I would expect the launch of De Beers gem synthetics to be in early 2011, just after termination of the next Supplier of Choice supply contract with DTC Sightholders.

After 2010, there will no longer be a DTC in London, and each of De Beers’ producer countries (including Canada) will sell its own output to select client lists. To avoid exhaustive sorting (apart from what can be done by machines and computers), I expect that Indian types of goods may even be auctioned, as these are not needed in Africa and price optimization will be the African producers’ overriding priority.

Jonathan Oppenheimer has always been fond of synthetics. The Element Six subsidiary, which he chairs, will provide De Beers with far greater growth opportunities than the natural diamond business. But that is still some time away.

I asked whether the company wasn’t concerned about other players, especially as their patents may run out. “We have been investing many years in research and development – and it is a continuing process. It takes enormous intellectual and financial resources. Though theoretically others could join the field, we are not overly concerned – because we know exactly the problems others will face. At the same time, we appreciate that De Beers has a similar technology – and they obviously have spent a fortune on synthetic research for well over half a century. These are all factors we naturally have taken into consideration, and we feel very comfortable about our niche in this growing market,” said Linares.

In any event, while being independent, Apollo won’t be alone in this business.

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Platinumsmith My Profile Registered User: offline Joined: 11-29-04 Posts: 258 Years: Last seen wearing: a cheeky grin My Karma Power: 39 Points: 1352 Hits: Out=233, In=0 Referrals: 1	Re: Big breakthrough in Synthetic Diamond technology for Apollo Post#2 @ 04-13-07 , 05:23 AM Very interesting

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Re: Big breakthrough in Synthetic Diamond technology for Apollo

Post#3 @ 04-13-07 , 07:35 AM

I think that some of the enthusiasm is closely related to their plans to float the company. They tend to announce their plans way before time, so to me this is largely about laying seeds (pardon the pun). Still, this is what you want in a big speculative company and the way I read it, they are going push harder and harder and grow. If De beers jump on-line - pun intended, (and we know they are producing jewellery) then players like Apollo will benefit from their ability to control prices. However, I don't think the synthetic diamond achievement will be so hard to reach given the $ figures involved and De beers will only hold fort so long. Apollo are deliberately fast because they feel dogs snapping at their heels.

If these companies are proudly creating diamonds that pass the synthetic tests and they are selling the rough in Asia then there is about as much chance of stopping them being represented as real as there is of stopping blood diamonds being traded.

All this has got to affect the cost of diamonds and their perception as rare and valuable. To what extend I don't know, but to me premature as it is (and if it is factual), it signals a shake up - for at least as long as the profit is there.

I know that every other 'new' synthetic stone has created the same hysteria, and in fact I am reading a book from 1568 and they were dealing with fakes then too, but I tend to think diamonds are different. In my way of thinking De Beers have caused their own demise.

Anyhow,
What is this about mines not having enough to match demand. I thought that mines were closing because the rough wasn't fetching enough to make them pay?

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Re: Big breakthrough in Synthetic Diamond technology for Apollo

Post#4 @ 04-13-07 , 08:11 AM

Interesting to see where this will go. Thanks for posting it.

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Re: Big breakthrough in Synthetic Diamond technology for Apollo

Post#5 @ 04-13-07 , 09:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Platinumsmith

If these companies are proudly creating diamonds that pass the synthetic tests and they are selling the rough in Asia

Or having mellee mixed in with real goods, getting cut in India and making it into Jewelry long before Wired heard of these companies and before any Jewelry makes it into a lab for detection...how would anyone know about this? Would a mounted synthetic mellee get noticed and tagged during an appraisal? And with mellee prices, does it matter?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Platinumsmith

then there is about as much chance of stopping them being represented as real as there is of stopping blood diamonds being traded.

Well said.

I think the goal is to give the impression that it can be stopped...
I saw a video where Rap described the threat well, even though he followed up those comments by toeing the party line...To paraphrase, Selling Diamonds is selling Romance. And if the perception is that to get the Diamonds out of the Earth, children are getting their hands chopped off, it isn't romantic anymore....

Quote:

I know that every other 'new' synthetic stone has created the same hysteria, and in fact I am reading a book from 1568 and they were dealing with fakes then too, but I tend to think diamonds are different. In my way of thinking De Beers have caused their own demise.

Having an engineer mentality, I've thought that Diamonds were a "dead industry walking" since I was a teenager. The process of making an undetectable synthetic always fascinated me. But growing up and learning about business, I realized that DeBeers will make sure that the natural diamond business will sustain itself for a long time to come...no matter what predictions to the contrary are made....

The only time they will not be able to stop the march of progress is when you can make a synthetic diamond through nanotech in just about any lab with little investment...

I do love this topic...

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Re: Big breakthrough in Synthetic Diamond technology for Apollo

Post#6 @ 04-13-07 , 10:39 AM

Surely melee is priced on the cutting only. The rough cost is already negligible. It is the fact that they can give exactly what you want you want that counts. The report is pretty clear about things. In testing the market they are also testing what they can get away with and melee works into a different concern (better choice of rough), already...

De Beers can only hope to keep on going and make a buck but cartels have a limited lifespan too. Maybe they won't join the enemy. I don't think they can buy them out. That is a worthwhile concept to - to develop the technology to become enough of an annoyance to be bought out, but they can't be that well off. Surely they will either have to rely on the courts or take a sideline stand in diamond branding.

Yes it is fun. I want to wear my dogs ashes on my wrist watch.

Platinumsmith My Profile Registered User: offline Joined: 11-29-04 Posts: 258 Years: Last seen wearing: a cheeky grin My Karma Power: 39 Points: 1352 Hits: Out=233, In=0 Referrals: 1	Re: Big breakthrough in Synthetic Diamond technology for Apollo Post#7 @ 04-13-07 , 10:46 AM That last bit was a joke. I don't really want a diamond wrist watch. I spent countless hours as a kid doing a paper round on my bike thinking that glass windows on my future Lamborghini wouldn't be as good as diamond. I think it was about then I road straight into the back of a truck.

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Re: Big breakthrough in Synthetic Diamond technology for Apollo

Post#8 @ 04-15-07 , 01:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Platinumsmith

Exactly. That's why I said, does it matter?

Quote:

De Beers can only hope to keep on going and make a buck but cartels have a limited lifespan too. Maybe they won't join the enemy. I don't think they can buy them out. That is a worthwhile concept to - to develop the technology to become enough of an annoyance to be bought out, but they can't be that well off. Surely they will either have to rely on the courts or take a sideline stand in diamond branding.

Without veering too far off topic, in this respect, DeBeers makes Microsoft look like Mickey Mouse in getting their business handled the way they want. Don't forget who they've been successfully doing business. Governments around the world. Russia during the Cold War...had the USSR released their diamond inventory, it would have been disastrous to the price of diamonds.

Anyway, here's another article that does describe what could eventually cause the lifespan to end:
http://www.zyvex.com/nano/

Quote:

Manufactured products are made from atoms. The properties of those products depend on how those atoms are arranged. If we rearrange the atoms in coal we can make diamond. If we rearrange the atoms in sand (and add a few other trace elements) we can make computer chips. If we rearrange the atoms in dirt, water and air we can make potatoes.

Todays manufacturing methods are very crude at the molecular level. Casting, grinding, milling and even lithography move atoms in great thundering statistical herds. It's like trying to make things out of LEGO blocks with boxing gloves on your hands. Yes, you can push the LEGO blocks into great heaps and pile them up, but you can't really snap them together the way you'd like.

In the future, nanotechnology will let us take off the boxing gloves. We'll be able to snap together the fundamental building blocks of nature easily, inexpensively and in most of the ways permitted by the laws of physics. This will be essential if we are to continue the revolution in computer hardware beyond about the next decade, and will also let us fabricate an entire new generation of products that are cleaner, stronger, lighter, and more precise.

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Platinumsmith My Profile Registered User: offline Joined: 11-29-04 Posts: 258 Years: Last seen wearing: a cheeky grin My Karma Power: 39 Points: 1352 Hits: Out=233, In=0 Referrals: 1	Re: Big breakthrough in Synthetic Diamond technology for Apollo Post#9 @ 04-15-07 , 10:24 PM I watched a documentary last night about printing cells and layering them to make an entire heart. They can't make the capiliaries yet but they think it will be possible in the next fifty years.

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Re: Big breakthrough in Synthetic Diamond technology for Apollo

Post#10 @ 04-16-07 , 08:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Platinumsmith

I watched a documentary last night about printing cells and layering them to make an entire heart. They can't make the capiliaries yet but they think it will be possible in the next fifty years.

That's truly unbelievable. The work being done in nanotechnology is truly something that will change the future into something unrecognizable. Although it's technical This article on Nanoscale Machines lists some lofty objectives. Here's a little snippet that really captures why working in the nanoscale is so difficult

Quote:

At the nanoscale one can no longer think of the material as a continuum whose properties change continuously as it is cut and shaped. Rather one has to consider that it is formed from discrete atoms. Thus at the nanoscale one has a supermolecule rather than a finely divided solid. This requires one to analyze how the elements of normal macromaterials design change as the scale is reduced from mm to micron to nanometers. The differences are dramatic. For a macrosystem a long alkane molecule or a flake of MoS2 might serve as a lubricant, but for a system built on the scale of nm, such molecules may serve as dirt that would clog and disable the nanosystem. Similarly the scaling of vibrations, electrical forces, thermal expansion, magnetic interactions, and surface tension with size can lead to phenomena very different at the scale of atoms than at the macroscale. Indeed in Nanosystems2, Drexler considered many aspects of how the scaling of familiar macroscopic concepts changes as one goes to the nanoscale.

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Re: Big breakthrough in Synthetic Diamond technology for Apollo

Post#11 @ 04-16-07 , 03:51 PM

so today with this type of technology , how do you know if you are getting a real diamond even if it has been gia tested?

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Re: Big breakthrough in Synthetic Diamond technology for Apollo

Post#12 @ 04-16-07 , 04:44 PM

IMO, Drexlerian nanomachines are a bunch of hooey... there are LOTS of reasons that simply scaling down robotics to a molecular level won't work, Brownian motion being one of them, regardless of the last sentence in that quote suggesting that Drexler has got around them.

The nanotech that's showing the most promise of being simple and commercially viable is more along the lines of what's (rather poorly) described in the Self Assembled Supramolecular Systems section further down - using enzyme-type assemblers common to biological systems, and in some cases actually stealing and adapting mechanisms from biological systems. Nature, as usual can teach us a few things yet....

We CAN already move individual atoms using SEM probes, though.

neo125: AFAIK, the main tools for detecting the difference between natural and synthetic diamonds are spectroscopic - the chemistry of the impurities in current synthetic stones is different than what's in a natural diamond. If a diamond was assembled at the nanoscale, it still might be detectable with these tools (because it could be too pure and perfect!). No reason it wouldn't be theoretically possible to add in the impurities, but I'd wager it would actually be more difficult and expensive than leaving them out.

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NanoTech Debate

Post#13 @ 04-17-07 , 12:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gemelli

IMO, Drexlerian nanomachines are a bunch of hooey... there are LOTS of reasons that simply scaling down robotics to a molecular level won't work, Brownian motion being one of them,

I've been enjoying the debate between two types of different nano "gurus". Some promise the world and are ambitious as hell...perhaps dreamers? But I like that they have vision and cheer them on despite skepticism that they'll be able to deliver....but then who would have thought speech recognition or OCR or even CGI would be where it's at today? You have to dream it to try and create it...

The other group try to be more practical...and perhaps achieve easier things quicker...

Quote:

regardless of the last sentence in that quote suggesting that Drexler has got around them.

Well, as long as they get paid trying, I'm sure they'll be happy...

Quote:

The nanotech that's showing the most promise of being simple and commercially viable is more along the lines of what's (rather poorly) described in the Self Assembled Supramolecular Systems section further down - using enzyme-type assemblers common to biological systems, and in some cases actually stealing and adapting mechanisms from biological systems. Nature, as usual can teach us a few things yet....

Indeed

I do suspect though that we'll discover that the nanotech world shows us that we've made some big mistakes in our understanding of the larger universe...many scientists think we just need to dot the i's and cross the t's.

Solids at the nano level may prove to be another "matter" entirely...

Quote:

neo125: AFAIK, the main tools for detecting the difference between natural and synthetic diamonds are spectroscopic - the chemistry of the impurities in current synthetic stones is different than what's in a natural diamond. If a diamond was assembled at the nanoscale, it still might be detectable with these tools (because it could be too pure and perfect!). No reason it wouldn't be theoretically possible to add in the impurities, but I'd wager it would actually be more difficult and expensive than leaving them out.

When a new synth reaches the market, the labs, especially GIA, put a lot of energy into finding a "signature" to detect the origin of the Diamond. That doesn't mean they'll be able to do so right away. And historically, some Diamonds did initially make it through...however it's usually not that hard to find a sig.

This is like Forensic Files....and the nano-world has so much material that is traceable, it would be rather hard indeed to fake out the lab...

Even Flawless diamonds, if you hike up the power enough, will show pinpoints. It's considered flawless when that pinpoint is invisible at 10X...

And btw, there are signatures for where a diamond came from too...although that isn't all that actively tracked, if they wanted to do so, I'm sure they could...

Oh, and there is some interesting news in the Synthetic Diamond World:
http://www.nationaljewelernetwor k...28b 60ecc4ffff

Quote:

Gemesis Corp. has announced that Joan Parker, most recently head of public relations for the De Beers/LVMH retail venture, will act as a brand ambassador for its lab-grown diamonds and as an advisor to its board.

The move comes a week after the Sarasota, Fla.-based company named teen golf star Morgan Pressel as a celebrity spokeswoman for the brand.

Parker, who has worked in the diamond industry for 30 years, is the former director of the Diamond Information Center. She headed up public relations for De Beers Diamond Jewellery (formerly De Beers LV) when the store launched in the United States.

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Re: Big breakthrough in Synthetic Diamond technology for Apollo

Post#14 @ 04-17-07 , 11:33 PM

I don't know much about nano technology but it sounds like there are different laws of physics as with quantum physics and any effective uses will involve a huge learning curve.

I don't think it will ever happen and definitely not in my life. If or when it happens then those that can do it are basically Gods. I'll bet they will find some ingenious ways of killing each other. I don't think the world can survive the ability to manipulate atoms.

I have a tangent that I want to share with you and I don't want you to go away thinking I am a bit freaky, but ever since I learnt about atoms before my teenage years, I both decided that the ability to manipulate these things is the most powerful thing possible and, I also delved into my fertile young imagination with the notion that atoms are tiny solar systems, our solar system is somebody else’s atom and that realm is infinite too - that in an infinite sense the atom that our solar system makes, is part of another solar system, which is an atom that is part of another solar system so it could be that there is a solar system 100 separations from ours with the exact same physical laws and no difference. I explained this to my brother who is a scientist but he wouldn't entertain the thought. I don't know why the physical laws have to be the same, but I rather think they would be.

I think that the fact I came upon this on my own without any prompting is proof that nano technology will come to be because I am forever imagining new inventions just before they are released and sometimes I get complex designs in my head which show the mechanics of a new type of transport, eg but I have no way to understand what the mechanics do, so how did it get into my head. I hope I am not the only one who thinks that humans are linked mentally – that some excited thoughts leaked out and I received them, (not that I think that is how it works). I don’t think you should say this is mad because twins can feel each others pain and when my friend’s dad died last week he dreamt he said, “Goodbye I love you” and ten minutes later his sister called to give him the news. I for one have unconsciously moved to pick up the phone when it hadn’t rung yet, and I find this normal, sorry.

As a disclaimer, I am incredibly good as always being wrong when I make predictions.

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Re: NanoTech Debate

Post#15 @ 04-18-07 , 12:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GilbertZ

I've been enjoying the debate between two types of different nano "gurus".

Heh, I guess I've picked sides. I do get quite the kick out of how scientists can set up "camps" on issues that rightfully fall in the middle ground (or along a different axis entirely) - the whole 'nature vs. nurture' is a favorite for me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by GilbertZ

Well, as long as they get paid trying, I'm sure they'll be happy...

They certainly make better press than those taking the other route.

Quote:

Originally Posted by GilbertZ

This is like Forensic Files....and the nano-world has so much material that is traceable, it would be rather hard indeed to fake out the lab...

Even Flawless diamonds, if you hike up the power enough, will show pinpoints. It's considered flawless when that pinpoint is invisible at 10X...

And btw, there are signatures for where a diamond came from too...although that isn't all that actively tracked, if they wanted to do so, I'm sure they could...

Good point. With nano-production will come nano-detection methods.

--------------------------

Quote:

Originally Posted by Platinumsmith

I have a tangent that I want to share with you and I don't want you to go away thinking I am a bit freaky, but ever since I learnt about atoms before my teenage years, I both decided that the ability to manipulate these things is the most powerful thing possible and, I also delved into my fertile young imagination with the notion that atoms are tiny solar systems, our solar system is somebody else’s atom and that realm is infinite too - that in an infinite sense the atom that our solar system makes, is part of another solar system, which is an atom that is part of another solar system so it could be that there is a solar system 100 separations from ours with the exact same physical laws and no difference. I explained this to my brother who is a scientist but he wouldn't entertain the thought. I don't know why the physical laws have to be the same, but I rather think they would be.

Heh, maybe we need a Pseudoscientific Tangent thread... I could tell you about some Big Weird Thoughts. The latest one I'm chewing on is the Reproductive Universe idea... but it's rather off-topic.

And I've heard a very strange version of what you're describing - could probably hunt down the guy's website.

Platinumsmith My Profile Registered User: offline Joined: 11-29-04 Posts: 258 Years: Last seen wearing: a cheeky grin My Karma Power: 39 Points: 1352 Hits: Out=233, In=0 Referrals: 1	Re: Big breakthrough in Synthetic Diamond technology for Apollo Post#16 @ 04-18-07 , 01:02 AM Why not call the Pseudoscientific (or psychoscientific )Tangent thread 'Big Weird Thoughts'

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FDA moves in

Post#17 @ 04-27-07 , 01:10 PM

Now the FDA is getting involved in NanoTech.

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HRD responds

Post#18 @ 04-29-07 , 04:47 AM

Well, the Diamond High Council responds to claims of Synthetics bypassing detection. Weirdly, their announcement is in the sidebar on the right. In case you miss it, I'll provide a quote right here.

Quote:

18 Apr 2007
HRD Research reacts to Apollo’s CVD news
Antwerp, 17-04-2007 HRD Research reacts to an article by industry analyst Chaim Even Zohar published last week on Idex Online that claimed some of the CVD synthetic diamonds manufactured by U.S. company Apollo Diamond can escape detection by gemmological equipment.

Yves Kerremans, Director of HRD Research, said the claims should be put in their correct perspective. “First, screening instruments are available on the market to help separate diamonds that are not synthetic from stones that need further investigation in a diamond lab. D-Screen, developed by HRD Research, and DiamondSureTM, produced by DTC, are examples of these screening instruments.”

He said that the instruments are compact and simple to use, and will select only a small fraction of stones on the market for additional sophisticated tests. These include surface luminescence imaging and photoluminescence spectroscopy, both essential to identifying CVD-created stones.

“HRD Research has invested a great deal in research on CVD synthetics and continues to expand its know-how on CVD characteristics by collaboration with several CVD producing universities and companies. The identification of CVD synthetic diamonds at HRD poses no problem.” Kerremans concludes: “Of course HRD Research looks forward to examine any recently produced CVD stone that is claimed by Apollo to be undetectable.”

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Platinumsmith My Profile Registered User: offline Joined: 11-29-04 Posts: 258 Years: Last seen wearing: a cheeky grin My Karma Power: 39 Points: 1352 Hits: Out=233, In=0 Referrals: 1	Re: Big breakthrough in Synthetic Diamond technology for Apollo Post#19 @ 04-29-07 , 08:00 PM I think it is absolutely certain that the diamond industry in 10 years will look nothing like it does today.

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Re: Big breakthrough in Synthetic Diamond technology for Apollo

Post#20 @ 04-29-07 , 08:38 PM

I watched a documentary that was talking about nano tubes - carbon tubes that are microscopic and 3cm's long. These fibres are much stronger then anything else available. They were talking about about nano technology too. It was quite interesting. Actually quite baffling.

I wan't to update my synopsis of atoms being part of another universe. How about the smaller and larger dimensions not being any different to our own? So if you shrink me a million times and put me in the right place I am exactly where I am now.

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Re: Big breakthrough in Synthetic Diamond technology for Apollo

Post#21 @ 05-10-07 , 03:16 PM

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Originally Posted by Platinumsmith

Check out the attached picture and see this site

Quote:

Originally Posted by Platinumsmith

I wan't to update my synopsis of atoms being part of another universe. How about the smaller and larger dimensions not being any different to our own? So if you shrink me a million times and put me in the right place I am exactly where I am now.

For some reason this reminds me of a social media site called Second Life. Have you heard of it?

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Platinumsmith My Profile Registered User: offline Joined: 11-29-04 Posts: 258 Years: Last seen wearing: a cheeky grin My Karma Power: 39 Points: 1352 Hits: Out=233, In=0 Referrals: 1	Re: Big breakthrough in Synthetic Diamond technology for Apollo Post#22 @ 05-10-07 , 10:41 PM gone are the days when things break

Platinumsmith My Profile Registered User: offline Joined: 11-29-04 Posts: 258 Years: Last seen wearing: a cheeky grin My Karma Power: 39 Points: 1352 Hits: Out=233, In=0 Referrals: 1	Re: Big breakthrough in Synthetic Diamond technology for Apollo Post#23 @ 05-10-07 , 11:02 PM I have heard of second life. They even have their own thriving actual economy. Not much like my theory, but heck I have moved on since then :-)

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