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Old Fashioned Cut
Post#1 @
04-01-07
, 05:13 PM
I've inherited my grandfather's three diamond ring, it had three stones, approximately 2CTs in the center, and slightly less than 1CT on each side. To make a long story short, my sister talked my mother into giving her one of the smaller stones about 40 years ago (the ring has been in a safety deposit box since my father's death 45 years ago). Rather than cause a problem I just want to replace the missing stone, the ring is currently at an appraiser's office and I'll have the information soon, I think it was a VS1 - color I, but I'll post the exact information when I get the appraisal back. The problem is that it's described as an "Old Fashioned Cut", I guess that's the same as what I see here as "Old European Cut" (or is there a difference?), where do I find an Old Fashioned Cut stone to match the missing stone? I've been to Blue Nile's site and I don't see that cut there, the appraiser told me that the Old Fashioned cut stones were less desirable for many years, and many were recut into smaller stones in modern styles; but now, due to both the rarity and the fact that people are now desiring a more understated diamond they are difficult to find, and about the same price as round cut diamonds. Do you diamond experts agree with her? Dick |
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Re: Old Fashioned Cut
Post#2 @
04-02-07
, 02:27 AM
Quote:
she is mostly correct. Sometimes they can be less, sometimes they can be MORE depending on quality. Finding a stone might not be that hard, but finding a stone that visually matches yours is another matter. I would NOT replace them with modern stones though... the beauty and charm of old cut stones just cannot find substitution with modern brilliants. I recently posted al ink in a thread (pardon me, I'll relink tomorrow if you can't find it - I'm feeling a bit under the weather) and I have not used the company so I am not recommending them per se, but they seem to not only have a very large database of antique stones, I believe they also will find stones specific to your needs. I didn't think the prices were outrageous... of course you get what you pay for in quality and some of the stones are more per carat than others. In terms of matching you need more for it to match the stone you have than to just be a beautiful stone. In fact you might consider asking a company like that to find you a matched pair that they can visually match and maybe they'd accept your stone as trade in or, better yet, you can have it put in another ring or a pendant 
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Re: Old Fashioned Cut
Post#3 @
04-02-07
, 11:15 AM
http://www.diamondring.com/forums/s...ead.php?t=85497 Hi... this thread above is where I posted the link... I'm sorry... I went away for a long weekend and came back sick (thanks to my middle child) AND with piles of laundry.... calgon!!!!!! |
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Re: Old Fashioned Cut
Post#4 @
04-02-07
, 11:33 AM
Unless you are very attached to this ring, I would make something new out of the 2 remaining stones. perhaps you have another sibling or relative who might want the smaller diamond? You could really make it a "family" heirloom by sharing it with your family and creating new jewelry that you can all appreciate. It saves you a lot of stress from trying to fulfill the task of matching vintage diamonds (which are all so unique, being hand cut and less homogenized than diamonds of today). With stones that large you really could separate them and have two great pieces, instead of trying to parse together one. I agree with Chereabera, putting a modern diamond in it would look noticeably off. Hope this helps. I am not farmiliar with "old fashioned cuts", this sounds like a generic term referring to older cut diamonds. To be more specific there are Old Mine Cuts, Old European Cuts, Transitional, Rose, etc. This has to be determined by an appraiser, or you can look at these charts and try to determine for yourself. I t might be hard for you to tell with the stones already set in a ring, it depends on the ring. |
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Re: Old Fashioned Cut
Post#5 @
04-02-07
, 12:06 PM
Quote:
I think the center stone can be a bit different... the other two should match. And by different I mean factors like LGF, table size, diameter etc. all effect the way a diamond will look - if the center diamond is off you can get away with it, but to have a balanced look the two flankers need to match. I wouldn't throw the ring out with the bathwater though! See if you can find a match and if you can't, put the rogue stone in another piece and leave the center with two new (old) matches! |
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Re: Old Fashioned Cut
Post#6 @
04-02-07
, 05:54 PM
Quote:
Shiney: That's food for thought, what is the social propriety of men wearing diamond rings these days? I don't know any men who wear diamonds, but I certainly remember my grandfather wearing it in the '30s and my father in the '40s and '50s, he always said it would be mine someday. Another thought is to get my sister to return it with the offer of giving her a modern cut for a replacement. I haven't heard from the appraiser yet, will post the specifications of the remaining flanker stone when I do hear. |
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Re: Old Fashioned Cut
Post#7 @
04-02-07
, 06:02 PM
I guess it all depends on the guy! Someone with the username "Cigar" for instance could probably make it fly! I seem to recall a very prominent Cuban man wearing diamond rings!  If your sister is attached to the diamond (which you couldn't blame her for!) you could probably find a match, depending on the color, cut and clarity of the others. Check ebay when you have that information. Look under vintage rings, but be careful, buying jewelry on ebay can be tricky! Let us know when you get that appraisal. Shiney |
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Re: Old Fashioned Cut
Post#8 @
04-02-07
, 09:13 PM
Quote:
If you want it to be popular for men to wear diamonds, you have to start the trend! Have no fear of fashion - wear what you like! I think men have undersold themselves in the diamond wearing department 
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Re: Old Fashioned Cut
Post#9 @
04-03-07
, 11:49 PM
4ct's of diamonds on a man. I am impressed. Men don't always have to be plain... I don't know you or your sister, but if you can convince her that the ring will be better if you have the original stones and buy her whatever she wants then that sounds like the best solution. Otherwise, you will need to find a dealer who deals in old cuts and perhaps leave it with them until he/she can find a good match. It is doubtfull that your sisters diamond is exactly the same so don't worry about the exact dimensions, rather that they look the same. It is more about the cutting style, and a good dealer can be very helpfull. I would love to see the ring that your father and his father wore. I can't visualise what it would look like. Phillip |
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Re: Old Fashioned Cut
Post#10 @
04-04-07
, 03:37 AM
Quote:
I'll post a picture when I get it back, I can remember as a child going to a ball game with my dad and all the kids coming up wanting to look at the ring, nobody in this little town had ever seen anything like it. |
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Re: Old Fashioned Cut
Post#11 @
04-04-07
, 09:06 PM
You are setting a trend :-) |
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Re: Old Fashioned Cut
Post#12 @
04-14-07
, 06:48 PM
Quote:
Here's the picture, the center diamond is: 1) Old European 2) 7.85 x 7.85 x 4.45 mm 3) 1.84 Cts 4) Proportions good 5) Finish good 6) SI-1 7) Color I 8) Florescence Faint Blue 9) $3750 Flanker diamond: 1) Old European 2) 5.80 x 5.80 x 3.61 mm 3) 0.81 Cts 4) VVS-2 5) Color J 6) Proportions Very good 7) Finish good 8) Florescence None 9) $840 Ring: pierced 14K gold with a platinum top $110, hand constructed. Total Orderly liquidation value $4,700 The first appraiser (CG, FGA, ASA, NGJA) appraised the smaller diamond at $840 Orderly liquidation value, I don't have the new appraisal (CG, ASA) back yet because she's having problems with comparables for a 14k/18k fireman's award badge from the 1880s, but has located a similar stone for $2,300. |
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Cigar, that ring is very nice....
Post#13 @
04-15-07
, 05:47 PM
I would suggest that you check out this website. You can get a match for the remaining flanker diamond. I think that your ring would be worth keeping as is. Obviously, its not a repro and has traceable provenance. The other thing, if you feel its too much bling, is maybe put colored stones on the sides? Maybe birthstones of loved ones? Or vice versa, take out the middle stone, have a colored gemstone in the center and find a match flanker diamond? I would lean toward keeping it as it originally was. And I agree with Cehra, modern stones in this ring would be incongruous. |
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Re: Cigar, that ring is very nice....
Post#14 @
04-15-07
, 07:49 PM
Thanks Alex: I called my cousin in Portland Maine, she is three years older than I and remembers my grandfather better than I, we left for California when I was 4 years old. She said he was considered a wealthy man in the depression because he made $500 a day with his tugboat, he seemed to be always buying diamonds and having them set for family as gifts, she doesn't remember this ring, but he had other diamond rings made for all members of the family, the last appraiser says the gold work is hand crafted and exquisite. I am going to restore the ring, either by my sister returning the original stone and buying her another, or by buying another stone. I've looked at the site you linked, and read some educational posts on this forum, I understand that color is more important than clarity, the big question I now have is how much variation should I entertain when looking for another stone, my flanker stone is 0.81 Cts, how far up or down can I go from 0.81? I would suppose that I should try to match the other flanker in color and clarity as much as possible. I also have my deceased mother's engagement ring with an Old European 0.84 diamond, VS-1, color F, I briefly considered having that stone placed in her father's ring, but I can't bear to break up my mother's ring any more than I can bear to break up my grandfather's ring, or see it remain broken up, I've seen that ring on her finger my entire life. I was practicing my macro photography skills this morning, taking pictures of jewelry is hard, when I set the lighting to make the diamonds sparkle, I get glare on the gold, this is the best I got, adjusting two lights and bouncing a flash off the ceiling. I did not photoshop the gold or platinum at all this time, but I did photoshop the diamonds to reduce some glare on a couple of facets, I also photoshopped the background. |
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I would try to...
Post#15 @
04-15-07
, 09:53 PM
...stick with the j-ish color. Also, if possible, I would try to stick to the millimeter size range of the other flanker diamond. Don't go by the carat weight so much as the millimeter size, since old euros can tend to weigh more than their apparent size. Have a professional look at the empty setting space and verify what size stone could/should go in there. It's not uncommon to see the older rings with asymmetrical stones. I have seen the three-stone old rings with obviously larger side stones than the middle stone and other multi-stone old rings that each diamond was a different size. I'd imagine that due to the hand cutting of the old euros, there just wasn't the exact/close matching that we have available today. But in the case of your ring, it would stand to reason that the stones would be very closely matched. I say this because of the stated workmanship of the ring and how your grandfather had jewelry custom made. Surely oldworlddiamonds has, or even one of our network jewelers can source, a well/closely matched old euro for your ring. Your ring looks like a very quality piece with the deep engraving and even milgrain work. Which finger did you plan on wearing it? Pinky? Ring finger? It's a handsome piece. |
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Last edited by alex88 : 04-15-07 at 09:57 PM. Reason: edited for clarity
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Re: Old Fashioned Cut
Post#16 @
04-16-07
, 11:10 AM
Cigar, Great joob on the photo! There is a lot of detail to this ring! Like Alex said, the millgrain is all still intact. Are thos teeny-tiny claw prongs holding the stones in? Good luck with the stone searching. Shiney |
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Re: Old Fashioned Cut
Post#17 @
04-16-07
, 05:37 PM
Quote:
I'll take it to my jeweler and see what he thinks about the size variation, there are four sets of two prongs, but I see the prongs are missing where the stone was removed, I guess they just make new ones? I don't care for pinky rings, so I am wearing it on a ring finger to get use to it, missing stone and all. I tried to take another picture showing more detail.  |
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Re: Old Fashioned Cut
Post#18 @
04-16-07
, 05:52 PM
What a knockout ring - even better that it's got some family history behind it! |
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Re: Cigar, that ring is very nice....
Post#19 @
07-20-07
, 08:52 PM
Quote:
Thanks Alex, I found a matching diamond at Old World Diamonds and my watchmaker had a jeweler rebuild the tiny claws, I now have the ring in tact.  Could you or anybody else recommend the proper appraiser to appraise the ring with the diamonds in it in the San Francisco Bay Area? |
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Re: Cigar, that ring is very nice....
Post#20 @
07-21-07
, 12:12 AM
Quote:
oh please post new pics of the restored ring.... please please!!!! |
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Re: Cigar, that ring is very nice....
Quote:
Yes!! We want to see this beauty! 
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