Sign in or Register Home
DiamondRing.comYour Online Jewelry Shopping Network
 Diamond Engagement Rings at James Allen 
Buy Sell Education Forum Directory Blog  
View Recent Products View Posts Ask Us Ask our Network Jewelers for a quote on a diamond/gemstone/jewelry




 
Post Reply New Thread
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old christie
 
My Profile
Registered User : offline
Joined: 02-13-01
Posts: 143
Years:
 
My Karma
Power: 56
Points: 10
christie is on a distinguished road


Quote this post and reply to it Post#1 @ 04-03-01 , 10:54 PM


Hi,

Visually with the unaided eye, is there a difference in rubies, red spinal, or rubellite, assuming if they are all the same color?

thanks,
Christie

Gemstone Search:

Budget:  


Old VVS1DRB
 
My Profile
Registered User : offline
Joined: 01-25-01
Posts: 107
Years:
 
My Karma
Power: 57
Points: 10
VVS1DRB is on a distinguished road


Quote this post and reply to it Post#2 @ 04-03-01 , 10:57 PM


Hi Christie. Yes and no.

Unfortunately they're pretty much mutually exclusive.

It's like asking "can one 2 bedroom house look like a three bedroom house or a 4 bedroom house?"

Yes and no. I'm sorry to not answer the way you'd prefer but I tell it like it is. You'll know which you like the best when you see it. :o)

Joe Sibold

Old VVS1DRB
 
My Profile
Registered User : offline
Joined: 01-25-01
Posts: 107
Years:
 
My Karma
Power: 57
Points: 10
VVS1DRB is on a distinguished road


Quote this post and reply to it Post#3 @ 04-04-01 , 05:08 AM


Of course Bill, and don't forget using Visual Optics technique in making separations between the three.

Joe Sibold

Old dazzled
 
My Profile
Registered User : offline
Joined: 11-02-00
Posts: 573
Years:
 
My Karma
Power: 62
Points: 10
dazzled is on a distinguished road


just my opinion
Quote this post and reply to it Post#4 @ 04-04-01 , 09:25 AM


The cost of a good quality ruby has gotten so high, it makes diamonds seem positively affordable. I have seen some awesome red spinels, no way could I tell the difference from a ruby. Rubellites can tend toward pink. The "pidgeon's blood" red of a ruby is best replicated through a red spinel.

Old RonCampbell
 
My Profile
Registered User : offline
Joined: 03-28-01
Posts: 14
Years:
 
My Karma
Power: 0
Points: 10
RonCampbell is on a distinguished road


Quote this post and reply to it Post#5 @ 04-06-01 , 01:01 PM


To sight I.D. a stone of the same color
can be dangerous but when looking at stones as rubulite if the stone is unmounted look thourgh the side of the
stone along the girdle you most will see a diferent color or a strong change of hue in the stone, this is brought on by a strong Dichroic effect that is a I.D. factor in tourmaline.
As for ruby and Spinel in some cases it's al most impossible we have had lots of ruby come through and only by running tests on R.I. and S.G. could we tell the difference due to all the stones had the same color and hue.
even though the ruby is also Dichroic
it is not nearly as strong as tourmaline
and you will not have change of over all color. As for spinel it can be very diffcult in most cases and almost impossible when your looking at a real
good red spinel.

Old winyan
 
My Profile

Joined: 10-11-01
Posts: 880
Years:
 
My Karma
Power: 0
Points: 10
winyan is on a distinguished road
Hits: Out=0, In=1


Rubellite
Quote this post and reply to it Post#6 @ 10-14-01 , 08:16 PM


I have a 1.25 carat rubellite heart that is so very clean, and almost a pigeon's blood red. I have it set in an enhancer I wear alternately with my baroque pearls, or with a thickish gold chain.

Except for a slight more bit of translucency one would almost mistake it for a ruby.

Old MadAsHell
 
My Profile

Joined: 03-30-00
Posts: 2,993
Years:
 
My Karma
Power: 0
Points: 10
MadAsHell is on a distinguished road


I Think I Am Buying a Red Spinel (from Jan and Brad)
Quote this post and reply to it Post#7 @ 10-18-02 , 09:32 AM


I just thought I would revive this thread since I hope to be buying a red spinel from Jan and Brad. I am unsure the two stones from which I was picking are still available. If both are, I'd love Jan to post their pictures and specs .

AGBF

Old Jan

    Jan's Avatar
 
My Profile
Registered User : offline
Joined: 06-12-99
Posts: 7,748
Years:
 
My Feedback (49)
Feedback In: 
+29  0
Feedback Out:
+48  0
 
My Karma
Power: 252
Points: 11368
Jan has a reputation beyond repute Jan has a reputation beyond repute Jan has a reputation beyond repute Jan has a reputation beyond repute Jan has a reputation beyond repute Jan has a reputation beyond repute Jan has a reputation beyond repute Jan has a reputation beyond repute Jan has a reputation beyond repute Jan has a reputation beyond repute Jan has a reputation beyond repute
Hits: Out=15836, In=5630
Referrals: 24


Quote this post and reply to it Post#8 @ 10-18-02 , 11:57 AM


O.K. This one is a 2.18 ct. from Burma with no enhancements measuring 8.08x6.57



Jan


Jan signature
For those that want to know the TRUTH about diamonds, just ask

Diamond Brokers of Florida
Attached Images
514.jpg
 
Old Jan

    Jan's Avatar
 
My Profile
Registered User : offline
Joined: 06-12-99
Posts: 7,748
Years:
 
My Feedback (49)
Feedback In: 
+29  0
Feedback Out:
+48  0
 
My Karma
Power: 252
Points: 11368
Jan has a reputation beyond repute Jan has a reputation beyond repute Jan has a reputation beyond repute Jan has a reputation beyond repute Jan has a reputation beyond repute Jan has a reputation beyond repute Jan has a reputation beyond repute Jan has a reputation beyond repute Jan has a reputation beyond repute Jan has a reputation beyond repute Jan has a reputation beyond repute
Hits: Out=15836, In=5630
Referrals: 24


Quote this post and reply to it Post#9 @ 10-18-02 , 11:59 AM


This one is weighing 1.78 ct. and measuring 7.5x6mm and is also from Burma. Also no enhancements.



Jan


Jan signature
For those that want to know the TRUTH about diamonds, just ask

Diamond Brokers of Florida
Attached Images
4510.jpg
 
Old jackieblue
 
My Profile

Joined: 03-01-01
Posts: 173
Years:
 
My Karma
Power: 0
Points: 10
jackieblue is on a distinguished road


Quote this post and reply to it Post#10 @ 10-18-02 , 12:02 PM


Wow! I especially like that last one. Jan, is that really what the colors look like? The first looks so pink and the second so red. Do that look that different next to each other?

Old ThomasH.

    ThomasH.'s Avatar
 
My Profile
Registered User : offline
Joined: 02-13-01
Posts: 474
Years:
 
My Karma
Power: 59
Points: 10
ThomasH. is on a distinguished road
Hits: Out=2561, In=308
Referrals: 4


Quote this post and reply to it Post#11 @ 10-19-02 , 06:08 PM


Dave-thats a pretty good point, but I have to disagree on the fluorescence of red spinel.. nice red spinels have very strong red fluorescence, extremely similar like fine ruby; therefore they have the strong emission lines ("organ pipe") in the red part of the spectrum...

Thomas
http://www.gemlab.net

Old ThomasH.

    ThomasH.'s Avatar
 
My Profile
Registered User : offline
Joined: 02-13-01
Posts: 474
Years:
 
My Karma
Power: 59
Points: 10
ThomasH. is on a distinguished road
Hits: Out=2561, In=308
Referrals: 4


Quote this post and reply to it Post#12 @ 10-19-02 , 06:19 PM


Oh yeah, maybe some extra info on the issue of red fluorescence in ruby...
the fluorescence is caused by the transition element Cr3+ (trivalent chromium), which is also responsible for the color of ruby. Most Thai and African rubies contain a rather high amount of divalent iron, which, in addition with some titanium, will give the stone a purplish color due to the charge transfer Fe2+ + Ti4+ ----> Fe3+ + Ti3+ (responsible for the blue color in sapphire); some blue in a red will give purplish...; when there is a lack of Ti4+, the iron will cause a brownish color. An additional effect of eccessive iron is, that any kind of fluorescence is quenched by the presence of iron; thus, iron rich rubies (normally out of the typical basaltic deposits) do not show strong red fluorescence and appear dull compared to stones with strong fluorescence... Therefore, also the purple colored spinels do not show much fluorescence, the color is mainly due to a mix between iron (which causes the color of blue spinel [rarely in combination with cobalt or solely cobalt]) and chromium (which causes the color of red spinels)

Thomas H.
http://www.gemlab.net

Old MadAsHell
 
My Profile

Joined: 03-30-00
Posts: 2,993
Years:
 
My Karma
Power: 0
Points: 10
MadAsHell is on a distinguished road


OK, Dave and Thomas...What Do I Do?
Quote this post and reply to it Post#13 @ 10-19-02 , 09:19 PM


I believe that both these stones are from Burma. That does not guarantee that they won't be high in iron and refuse to fluoresce on demand, though, right? How do I know if my red spinel is as pretty as a ruby? I wanted that Burmese ruby and this was supposed to be a substitute .

AGBF

Last edited by MadAsHell : 10-19-02 at 09:20 PM.
Old MadAsHell
 
My Profile

Joined: 03-30-00
Posts: 2,993
Years:
 
My Karma
Power: 0
Points: 10
MadAsHell is on a distinguished road


I'm Lucky Jan and Brad Are So Honest!!!
Quote this post and reply to it Post#14 @ 10-20-02 , 12:33 PM


Quote:
Originally posted by oldminer
I guess I have seen very few really RED spinels. The majority of those sold as "red" are a mix of nearly red stones and don't fluoresce much. If you are going to spend enough to buy a fine red spinel you had best make sure the fluorescent nature is as Thomas has suggested or it will never look like a real Burma ruby.

Being from Burma is not the real issue with a spinel. It is the color and how much it may mimic a fine ruby....



This is not good news, Dave . You just killed a sale for Jan and Brad .

Luckily, they are the only ones I buy stones from at the moment, so it is more of a postponed sale than a murdered one. I guess they'll have to wait to sell me a Burma ruby.

It may be a long wait, though. I want a good one. A slow dollar instead of a quick dime.

AGBF

PS-What does Richard Hughes say about this? Palagems sells both rubies and red spinels.

Old ThomasH.

    ThomasH.'s Avatar
 
My Profile
Registered User : offline
Joined: 02-13-01
Posts: 474
Years:
 
My Karma
Power: 59
Points: 10
ThomasH. is on a distinguished road
Hits: Out=2561, In=308
Referrals: 4


Quote this post and reply to it Post#15 @ 10-20-02 , 12:52 PM


Also true, Dave...
and the truely fine red spinels cost quite a bit... Not as much as a fine unheated burma ruby, but still quite a bit...

Thomas

Old MadAsHell
 
My Profile

Joined: 03-30-00
Posts: 2,993
Years:
 
My Karma
Power: 0
Points: 10
MadAsHell is on a distinguished road


One Step Further, Please!
Quote this post and reply to it Post#16 @ 10-20-02 , 01:30 PM


Quote:
Originally posted by Thomas H.
Also true, Dave...
and the truely fine red spinels cost quite a bit... Not as much as a fine unheated burma ruby, but still quite a bit...

Thomas


Thomas H.-

Are the fine red spinels *worth* the price? I assure you the ones I was considering appeared pricey to *me*!!!

AGBF

Old MadAsHell
 
My Profile

Joined: 03-30-00
Posts: 2,993
Years:
 
My Karma
Power: 0
Points: 10
MadAsHell is on a distinguished road


Question for Dave Atlas
Quote this post and reply to it Post#17 @ 10-20-02 , 01:33 PM


Is the 2.18 carat red spinel a true red? (I know all you can see is a picture!) Is it going to look like a ruby? That is the stone I like!

AGBF

Old Rigel

    Rigel's Avatar
 
My Profile
Registered User : offline
Joined: 08-28-02
Posts: 115
Years:
 
My Karma
Power: 50
Points: 10
Rigel is on a distinguished road


Quote this post and reply to it Post#18 @ 10-20-02 , 02:25 PM


AGBF,

Have you considered a lab created ruby? An aquaintance of mine has a pair of drop-dead spectacular ruby and diamond earrings. I've always admired ( ok, coveted! ) those earrings and a good mutual friend has confided to me that those stones are synthetic "Ramaura" (sp?) rubies. They have that glow just like you'd expect . I never had an inkling they weren't very fine Burmese stones and they look much nicer than most of the rubies I've seen in the I'm-not-Elizabeth-Taylor price range .

This may not be the option for you, but I thought I'd mention it.


Rigel signature
If you were arrested for kindness
would there be enough evidence
to convict you?
Old MadAsHell
 
My Profile

Joined: 03-30-00
Posts: 2,993
Years:
 
My Karma
Power: 0
Points: 10
MadAsHell is on a distinguished road


Request for rockdoc
Quote this post and reply to it Post#19 @ 10-20-02 , 08:57 PM


rockdoc,

Are you able to enlarge the picture of your stone? (I am assuming that that is the 8 carat rhodolite?) It is gorgeous. When I clicked on it to enlarge it, it didn't grow, however . Are you able to post it in a much bigger size?

Congratulations on owning that one, too!

AGBF

Last edited by MadAsHell : 10-20-02 at 08:58 PM.
Old MadAsHell
 
My Profile

Joined: 03-30-00
Posts: 2,993
Years:
 
My Karma
Power: 0
Points: 10
MadAsHell is on a distinguished road


Note to Wink
Quote this post and reply to it Post#20 @ 10-20-02 , 09:02 PM


*YOU* I will deal with privately, mister!

AGBF

Old MadAsHell
 
My Profile

Joined: 03-30-00
Posts: 2,993
Years:
 
My Karma
Power: 0
Points: 10
MadAsHell is on a distinguished road


It's Beautiful!
Quote this post and reply to it Post#21 @ 10-20-02 , 11:06 PM


I am sorry to put you out just because I wanted to see a bigger picture of the first stone! I have seen enough to know I love *both* stones. Thank you for posting the pictures!

AGBF

Old MadAsHell
 
My Profile

Joined: 03-30-00
Posts: 2,993
Years:
 
My Karma
Power: 0
Points: 10
MadAsHell is on a distinguished road


Re: AGBF
Quote this post and reply to it Post#22 @ 10-21-02 , 12:16 AM


Quote:
Originally posted by rockdoc

Did you see the 10 carat tsav photo I posted? 10 carat tsavorites are really uncommon.


I don't believe so. Do you recall what thread they are in?

AGBF

Old ThomasH.

    ThomasH.'s Avatar
 
My Profile
Registered User : offline
Joined: 02-13-01
Posts: 474
Years:
 
My Karma
Power: 59
Points: 10
ThomasH. is on a distinguished road
Hits: Out=2561, In=308
Referrals: 4


Quote this post and reply to it Post#23 @ 10-21-02 , 02:48 AM


Quote:
Originally posted by wink
Dear Queen AGBF,

Just curious, why would you let two people talking about two stones they have never seen "kill" a sale? They both offered excellent information, but hardly the type that should have caused you not to consider the stones that you were asking about.

I would ask you to consider asking Jan and Brad to send you the stones to look at and let you see if you agree with them that they are beautiful and worthy or not of consideration.

Red spinel may often be confused with ruby, but that is often because they are more beautiful than most rubies. Yes, the ten to twenty thousand a carat ruby that you refer to is an incredible stone, but most rubies are not. Personally, I think that if red spinel had a better press agent it would be much more popular than all but the finest rubies.

I would never dare to suggest what you "should" do, but merely ask as I would hate to see you miss out on a beautiful stone worthy of being owned for its own beauty, not "just" because it looked like a ruby.

Your most caring servant

Wink



Wink, I couldn't agree more on the issue of the bad press of spinel... I've seen stones which surpass by far most rubies... and which are certainly worth their money...

Thomas H.
http://www.gemlab.net

Old fancyyellow
 
My Profile
Registered User : offline
Joined: 07-10-02
Posts: 11
Years:
 
My Karma
Power: 0
Points: 10
fancyyellow is on a distinguished road
Hits: Out=0, In=1


RE : Rubies, Red Spinal, Rubellite
Quote this post and reply to it Post#24 @ 10-21-02 , 03:25 AM


I work at colored stone whole sale company. My company is about 30 years old, therefore, we have lots of stock. I am very lucky to see so many colored stones. Before this, I worked at E.G.L. for 8 years and had a chance to see so many diamonds. So, this experience really helps me to repolish my knowledge since G.I.A. and also teach me to appraciate colored stones. I used to only think only gem worth spending money was diamond,ruby,emerald,sapp hire. Ironically, my company don't sell any of those.
I never knew Rubellite and Spinal were that pretty. But I get few calls from my clients requesting, what kind of stones can they purchase that can mimic Ruby...
Please,.. love all the gem stones for its own beauty.. just like everyone has its own unique beauty...some people like ruby because it's expensive, Spinal can be very expensive too
If you like red, red spinal is awesome way to go... if you like rich dark gorgeous pink, rubellite will be perfect.
So, what I'm trying to say is... if it's pretty and you like the color
"what the heck, just buy it"

Old MadAsHell
 
My Profile

Joined: 03-30-00
Posts: 2,993
Years:
 
My Karma
Power: 0
Points: 10
MadAsHell is on a distinguished road


My Current Plan
Quote this post and reply to it Post#25 @ 10-21-02 , 11:13 AM


I am rushing. I have to go to a psychiatric hospital. Too many gem decisions .

(Honest. I have to go to one of the few psychiatric hospitals that still exist! But for Forensic Grand Rounds, not treatment .)

I am hoping Jan can get in two red spinels, look at them and see what SHE thinks, then send one or both on to Dave Atlas for an opinion.

Rockdoc also seems like a good person to look at colored gemstones since he knows them so well, but I am afraid he is as enthusiastic about color as I am. And *Wink* absolutely *CANNOT* be trusted! He would probably buy the stone out from under me if it looked good!

So I am thinking I will send it to the skeptic and see if I can convert him .

AGBF

PS-For the humor-impaired and for those for whom English is a second language, I *would* trust Wink and rockdoc to know a good colored stone when they saw one! I have been teasing them because they love colored stones so much.

Last edited by MadAsHell : 10-21-02 at 11:14 AM.
Read Messages in: GEMSTONES All forums
Newer:
Up a Topic Looking for a gemstone that s more rare than diamond by MDesigner
Up a Topic Newbie looking for a ring posted in DIAMONDS by sna77
Older:
Down a Topic looking for this ring by pinkbow
Down a Topic pix The wax finally came posted in Jewelry Photo Gallery by nero
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:
 
Advanced Search

Contact Us - Guidelines - Privacy Policy - Refer a Friend - Top^


Google Custom Search

XHTML | CSS
Logged in as Unregistered
Powered by: vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 1998 - Present, DiamondRing.com. oHraDaco.
All times are GMT -4. The current time is 02:56 PM.
Validation #36cdb62d.