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Old dbutze
 
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Platinum's Patina
Quote this post and reply to it Post#1 @ 05-18-06 , 11:17 PM


Just a question for Platinum advocates. My wife and I (recently married) both have platinum rings and I have a question about the long term care for them. Most importantly, does frequent ultrasonic cleaning have any adverse effect on the development of a patina? Also, how long does it take to form one? Any other comments on platinum care are welcome. I once heard that if you put the world's known supply of platinum in an olympic size pool it would only fill up to your ankles! Any other interesting facts? Thanks for the replies.


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Re: Platinum's Patina
Quote this post and reply to it Post#2 @ 05-19-06 , 10:00 AM


Hi dbutze, I'm not an expert on this but I do love platinum.

My wedding band is polished regularly by the local jeweler and it always brings back that "new" shine to it. I prefer it a bit shiney and want to keep that aged patina away as long as possible.

Platinum items with intricate carvings or engravings are more difficult to polish and keep shiney.

One interesting fact I know about it is that you never lose metal from it during normal wear. With gold, when it's scratched, the metal is removed and lost. If it's severely scratched and often polished.. over time it can loose gold weight. With platinum, when it's scratched, the metal is displaced or merged with the other metal next to it. It's not actually removed or lost. So the item generally weighs the same in fifty years as it did when it was new. At least that's my understanding.

I think that's pretty cool.


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Re: Platinum's Patina
Quote this post and reply to it Post#3 @ 05-19-06 , 06:22 PM


dbutze,
Platinum is kind of soft and malleable and this is what leads to the developement of a "patina". The patina is actually a whole bunch of microscopic dents in the metal that all sort of blend together and give the surface of the metal it's "fuzzy" look. Putting the rings in the ultrasound won't do much to a ring that already has a patina, but it can add some patina to those areas on a ring that bump into other things in an ultrasound.

For those like DiamLady who prefer a high polish, the best way to maintain that is to not let the ring bump into anything if possible. While platinum is very durable, polishing is one of those things that can cause some premature wear to it. The reason for this is that in order to polish the metal you need to smooth it out with abrasvies and get below the deepest dent on it's surface, prior to polishing. This wears the material out in the same manner as polishing any other metal. If you want to have the least wear, when polisning platinum, then you need to have the surfaces to be polished, "burnished", before polishing. This is where a polished steel tool is rubbed all over the areas with patina and then the piece is polished. This burnishing acts to shove the high points of the patina back into the low points, in order to make the surface smooth again. It can then be polished with little loss of material. This is very time consuming and most jewelers won't be too keen on do it this way, so it may take some sweet talking !


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Re: Platinum's Patina
Quote this post and reply to it Post#4 @ 05-19-06 , 08:14 PM


very interesting information, Michael. Can you recommend anything we can do at home to keep platinum at it's finest? I've tried my darndest to keep my ring from contacting anything, which meant giving up the use of my left hand! =P I still have some few light scratches at the bottom of the band. Is there anything that can be done other than taking it to a jeweler?

Also, I take my pieces into the jewelers for regular "tune-ups" as I say, but you mentioned unless they burnish the platinum before polishing, that there will be material loss. If this is the case, is there a general guideline as to how frequently polish (or not polish) your platinum pieces?

Thank you!


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Re: Platinum's Patina
Quote this post and reply to it Post#5 @ 05-19-06 , 09:38 PM


I really like platinum, but the main gripe I have is that my wedding band, when set with the ER, gets scratches from them rubbing against each other. It urks me... I'm anal though...

And I'm glad to know that I'm not the only one who 'gave up using their left hand'

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Re: Platinum's Patina
Quote this post and reply to it Post#6 @ 05-19-06 , 09:52 PM


Hmm.... I guess I'm wierd because I really beat my plain platinum band up!! If I'm doing anything where I cannot wear a "good" diamond ring or jewelry, I always wear the band. I really never take it off. I always thought it could handle anything.

And as mentioned earlier I have it polished a lot. ??? Now I wonder if maybe I shouldn't do that! But I know I will since I like it shiney.


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Re: Platinum's Patina
Quote this post and reply to it Post#7 @ 05-20-06 , 12:12 PM


Quote:
Originally Posted by andreayung23
I still have some few light scratches at the bottom of the band. Is there anything that can be done other than taking it to a jeweler?

If this is the case, is there a general guideline as to how frequently polish (or not polish) your platinum pieces?


Andrea,
In answer to your questions:
No, there really isn't anything special that you can do other than just wear the ring, enjoy it and get it polished whenever you felt the need.

The only time that I'd really worry about having a platinum ring repolished is if it had intricate details , such as engraving, that could be damaged by too frequent polishing. For a band without engraving I'd repolish it, as DiamLady does, whenever you want to. The amount of material lost is not very great and if the ring looks better to you when it's polished, then I'd certainly get it done whenever the patina became too much for your tastes.


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Re: Platinum's Patina
Quote this post and reply to it Post#8 @ 05-20-06 , 03:29 PM


thanks for the info!


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Re: Platinum's Patina
Quote this post and reply to it Post#9 @ 10-31-09 , 09:54 PM


i'm sorry to disagree with michael, but patina is not microscopic dents but rather a very thin layer of oxide resulting from the interaction of the metal with oxygen in the surrounding atmosphere.

you could place a piece of platinum on a table and leave it untouched where it would never be 'dented' in any way and it will still slowly patina.

i have several platinum pieces; one which has been in a glass case virtually untouched for the past fifteen years and it has developed a very distinct patina.

platinum patinas much more slowly than silver because it is less reactive than silver at the oxygen concentration levels typical in our our atmosphere.

mark
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael_E
dbutze,
Platinum is kind of soft and malleable and this is what leads to the developement of a "patina". The patina is actually a whole bunch of microscopic dents in the metal that all sort of blend together and give the surface of the metal it's "fuzzy" look. Putting the rings in the ultrasound won't do much to a ring that already has a patina, but it can add some patina to those areas on a ring that bump into other things in an ultrasound.

For those like DiamLady who prefer a high polish, the best way to maintain that is to not let the ring bump into anything if possible. While platinum is very durable, polishing is one of those things that can cause some premature wear to it. The reason for this is that in order to polish the metal you need to smooth it out with abrasvies and get below the deepest dent on it's surface, prior to polishing. This wears the material out in the same manner as polishing any other metal. If you want to have the least wear, when polisning platinum, then you need to have the surfaces to be polished, "burnished", before polishing. This is where a polished steel tool is rubbed all over the areas with patina and then the piece is polished. This burnishing acts to shove the high points of the patina back into the low points, in order to make the surface smooth again. It can then be polished with little loss of material. This is very time consuming and most jewelers won't be too keen on do it this way, so it may take some sweet talking !


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Re: Platinum's Patina
Quote this post and reply to it Post#10 @ 11-15-09 , 08:38 AM


Quote:
Originally Posted by dbutze
Just a question for Platinum advocates. My wife and I (recently married) both have platinum rings and I have a question about the long term care for them. Most importantly, does frequent ultrasonic cleaning have any adverse effect on the development of a patina? Also, how long does it take to form one? Any other comments on platinum care are welcome. I once heard that if you put the world's known supply of platinum in an olympic size pool it would only fill up to your ankles! Any other interesting facts? Thanks for the replies.


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It doesnt sounds true to me.

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Re: Platinum's Patina
Quote this post and reply to it Post#11 @ 11-29-09 , 10:44 AM


Platinum is one of the rarest metals available and that's why it is so expensive! One way to clean it is you can place some baking soda and salt into water and then use a toothbrush to brush it. Also one I've heard people doing is they actually use toohpaste to clean their wedding bands

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Re: Platinum's Patina
Quote this post and reply to it Post#12 @ 12-08-09 , 05:30 PM


Quote:
Originally Posted by tanchienwu
i'm sorry to disagree with michael, but patina is not microscopic dents but rather a very thin layer of oxide resulting from the interaction of the metal with oxygen in the surrounding atmosphere.

you could place a piece of platinum on a table and leave it untouched where it would never be 'dented' in any way and it will still slowly patina.


To my knowledge, platinum does not react with oxygen, so the patina that it develops can't be a result of oxidation.
Michael's description of a patina is the same that I've always read and heard from others. The brushed finish develops over time and after wear from scratches and little tiny dents.

Do you have any pictures of your platinum pieces? Maybe we just have a different understanding of what the patina looks like.

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Re: Platinum's Patina
Quote this post and reply to it Post#13 @ 05-16-11 , 03:29 PM


It is an old thread, but platinum does in fact react with oxygen -- oxygen is reduced on the surface of the metal, resulting in the patina.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DeadDisco
To my knowledge, platinum does not react with oxygen, so the patina that it develops can't be a result of oxidation.
Michael's description of a patina is the same that I've always read and heard from others. The brushed finish develops over time and after wear from scratches and little tiny dents.

Do you have any pictures of your platinum pieces? Maybe we just have a different understanding of what the patina looks like.


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Re: Platinum's Patina
Quote this post and reply to it Post#14 @ 09-07-12 , 02:02 PM


Quote:
Originally Posted by labrat0486
It is an old thread, but platinum does in fact react with oxygen -- oxygen is reduced on the surface of the metal, resulting in the patina.


I'm sorry, but this is simply not true. Platinum does not spontaneously oxidize.

"Chemists can determine whether this oxidation reaction is spontaneous and if so, how much energy is released. Likewise, they can determine whether the reaction is nonspontaneous and how much energy is required to make the reaction proceed. Knowing the amount of energy released or required for various oxidation and reduction reactions gives us an idea of the ability these reactions (called cell reactions) have to push or pull electrons through a circuit; the measure of this ability is called the cell potential. The cell potential is a useful value when it can be compared to other cell potentials obtained under the same standard set of conditions—that is, when all participating gases exist at a pressure of 1 atm, and all ions are present in a concentration of 1 mol L-1. A cell potential under standard conditions is called a standard cell potential, or a standard electrode potential, E°. Standard cell potentials are reported only for reduction reactions; for this reason, they are also called standard reduction potentials. Standard electrode potentials are all measured in reference to the hydrogen electrode’s standard potential, which is arbitrarily set at zero. If another species oxidizes a molecule of H2 to H+ ions, the other species is itself reduced and has a positive standard reduction potential. On the other hand, if H+ ions oxidize another species, that species has a negative standard reduction potential. Most general chemistry textbooks have tables of standard cell potential values. When we look up the standard cell potential for the reduction of Pt2+ to Pt0 (the opposite of the oxidation reaction written above), we see that this reaction has a positive value for E°, meaning that Pt2+ oxidizes H2 to H+ under standard conditions.
Pt2+(aq) + 2 e- ® Pt0(s) E° = +1.20 V

As stated above, we are really more interested in the reverse reaction, the oxidation of Pt0 to Pt2+. The standard cell potential for the oxidation reaction has the same value but the opposite sign as that for the reduction reaction:
Pt0(s) ® Pt2+(aq) + 2 e- E° = -1.20 V

Now let’s take a look at what these cell potential values mean. We will see that the cell potential is related both to the reaction free energy, which tells us whether or not the reaction is spontaneous, and to the equilibrium constant for the reaction, which tells us the extent of the reaction at equilibrium. The standard cell potential is related to the standard reaction free energy through the following equation:
DG° = -nFE°

Here, n is the number of moles of electrons participating in the reaction. F is the Faraday constant, which is the magnitude of charge per mole of electrons, and is equal to 9.6485 x 104 C mol-1. We can now calculate the standard free energy for the oxidation reaction written above:
DG° = -nFE° = -2 x (9.6485 x 104 C mol-1) x (-1.20 V)

= +231,564 C.V mol-1

= +231,564 J mol-1

= +232 kJ mol-1

When the reaction free energy is positive (and the cell potential is negative), the reaction is nonspontaneous in the direction written. Therefore, the oxidation of Pt0 to Pt2+ is nonspontaneous; energy must be supplied in order for the reaction to proceed. The energy required for the oxidation of Pt0 (from the platinum electrodes) can be supplied in the form of an electric current; such a current was applied to the continuous culture chamber containing E. coli bacteria. The standard cell potential is also related to the equilibrium constant, K, for the redox reaction:

DG° = -RTlnK

Here, R is the gas constant, 8.31451 J K-1 mol-1, and T is the temperature. Given this expression and the relationship above between reaction free energy and cell potential, we can relate the cell potential directly to the equilibrium constant:
DG° = -RTlnK = -nFE°

lnK = nFE°/RT

K = e(nFE°/RT)

Therefore, at 25° C (298.15 K), the equilibrium constant for the oxidation of Pt0 to Pt2+ is calculated to be the following:
K = e(nFE°/RT) = e-93.41

= 2.70 x 10-41

As this calculation shows, when Pt0 is oxidized to Pt2+, the reaction strongly favors the reactants—unless energy is supplied to the reaction. "

from: http://chemcases.com/cisplat/cisplat04.htm

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