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| HOME : FORUM : EDUCATION : DIAMONDS : Buying An Internet Diamond By The Numbers: It Doesn't Work. |
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Buying An Internet Diamond By The Numbers: It Doesn't Work.
Post#1 @
04-25-06
, 08:06 PM
We have long advocated that buying a diamond on-line from an Internet vendor that does not actually have the diamond in-house can be dangerous to your psyche and pocketbook. This fact was once again driven home to us and one of our clients who requested information on two Pear shape diamonds listed on our Exceldiamonds.com website. Both diamonds weighed .81 carats, were VS-1 Clarity, were graded by GIA, and had different Millimeter Measurements . One was a "D" color, the other a "G" color. How do you make a decision? Tough way to spend thousands of dollars, isn't it? We called in both diamonds from the manufacturer and took these photographs (Photo's by Judah) for our client. We want you to see the dramatic visual differences between these two diamonds. Both diamonds are beautiful but uniquely different in shape and light refraction. The .81 D color has a crushed ice look with good scintillation, and is a classic "Tear-Drop" pear shape; whereas the .81 G color is much more dispersive and has what Bill Goldberg would refer to as a "sexy shape". Both diamonds are very appealing and will make for a beautiful diamond engagement ring. There is no "right" or 'wrong" answer or decision on these two diamonds, it's entirely subjective. You won't get this information from a drop-shipper who never sees the diamonds he sells and doesn't have a clue. Might work if you're buying a cuisinart from Walmart or a book from Amazon but not diamonds which are visual. Which Pear Shape would you buy? |
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Re: Buying An Internet Diamond By The Numbers: It Doesn't Work.
Post#2 @
04-26-06
, 10:20 AM
Great Photos Barry and a point well made when your choosing between one and two, but when you only have one to put beside itself how do you make the comparison? |
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Re: Buying An Internet Diamond By The Numbers: It Doesn't Work.
Post#3 @
04-26-06
, 01:13 PM
Barry this is a really great post! If you think about it, there really is a diamond out there to suit just about anyone's particular tastes/fancie. You shed some light on the fact that even though a person may love one shape, it's a whole other world out there when the specifics of that shape come into play. Between the two, I really like the fatter pear. Nice pics 
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Re: Buying An Internet Diamond By The Numbers: It Doesn't Work.
Post#4 @
04-26-06
, 01:49 PM
Thanks for the great post Barry. It's something important to remember, and the pictures really help to make the point. I agree with gemologygal, I like the fatter pear. |
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Re: Buying An Internet Diamond By The Numbers: It Doesn't Work.
Post#5 @
04-26-06
, 01:59 PM
Merv; We always take photographs of every diamond that we call in for our clients. In this particular case, our client could not discern differences/similarities between these two pear shapes just based on the 'numbers' listings and wanted additional info which we are happy to provide. gemologygal; the point here is that it is virtually impossible for a consumer to decide just based on the listing itself. Fancy shape diamonds can have very similar "numbers" and yet look dramatically different as shown above. Internet diamond websites that have their listed diamonds drop-shipped directly from the manufacturer are working blind and the consumer is buying blind. Diamonds are a visual medium. Annie; Our client bought the "Tear-Drop". |
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Re: Buying An Internet Diamond By The Numbers: It Doesn't Work.
Post#6 @
04-26-06
, 02:36 PM
Barry, I sent you a quick PM about this topic. Thanks
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Re: Buying An Internet Diamond By The Numbers: It Doesn't Work.
Post#7 @
04-26-06
, 02:39 PM
Just PM'd my answer to you. |
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Re: Buying An Internet Diamond By The Numbers: It Doesn't Work.
Post#8 @
04-26-06
, 05:15 PM
WOW,........great pix Barry!!! I'd just made my mind up that I'd chose the 'sexy' fuller shaped pear, not the one your client picked. Just as well we all like something different from the next person,...........But it's a great way to get the point over,........ numbers alone do not a diamond make ! Thanks, Michelle |
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Re: Buying An Internet Diamond By The Numbers: It Doesn't Work.
Post#9 @
04-26-06
, 08:46 PM
That chubby pear is oh so beautiful! They are both very pretty, but the shape of rounder one makes it just so much more appealing to me. I agree completely that diamonds are a visual purchase. Pictures are especially important when you can't see the diamond in person. I'm sure your client is VERY glad they found you! |
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Buying by the numbers
Post#10 @
04-27-06
, 12:32 AM
Barry; I've tried to post this request three times now. Maybe you know why it doesn't show up. At any rate can/will/would you kindly forward copies of the above certs to me. I'd like to run them through my program for a testing of the eCS. Thank you again. Merv. |
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Re: Buying An Internet Diamond By The Numbers: It Doesn't Work.
Post#11 @
04-27-06
, 05:31 AM
Hi Merv; I have no idea. You should ask the Forum Moderators. I did reply to you through our website's "Live Chat" feature. Regards, |
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Re: Buying An Internet Diamond By The Numbers: It Doesn't Work.
Post#12 @
04-28-06
, 07:39 PM
Love the post I have a question for all of you does the average diamond consumer know what drop ship is?, and how many of the diamond sites out there tell the consumer that they are a drop ship operation? How many of these on line jewelry stores allow the consumer to buy shy? When we first went online we had a large decision to make mounting or no mountings we went with no mountings for the very reason we are not a drop ship operation and can not offer our customers and endless selection of diamonds. That’s not to say we can not get them what ever they want and we do, but we could never sell a diamond to any one with out sending a photo of it and they should have at least 3 to pick from. Just a thought |
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Re: Buying An Internet Diamond By The Numbers: It Doesn't Work.
Post#13 @
04-29-06
, 11:08 PM
NJ; I'd bet very few consumers truly realize how many diamond websites are drop-shippers and certainly the drop-ship diamond vendors won't publicize this on their websites. The biggest one currently is Bluenile. |
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Re: Buying An Internet Diamond By The Numbers: It Doesn't Work.
Post#14 @
04-30-06
, 12:12 AM
I'll just jump in as a consumer to say that I did not have a clue about the whole "list" and drop shipping thing until after I had learned about it here. I now ask for actual photos, or at least if the item is in house for a qualified person to look at it. On one particular occassion late last year I was looking at something at BlueNile and when I called them to ask for photos of the actual item, I was told they could not do that. End of comment from them. So I pressed further and asked why not? Then they told me they did not have the item in stock but could get it. So.. obviously my next question was to ask them to bring it in house and send me a photo or at least have someone look at it and give me thier assesment. Nope.. they couldn't (or wouldn't do that either). At the end of the conversation, I was told that I had to buy the item, pay for it and the shipping to me, and then once I saw it if I didn't like it I could return it.... less the cost of shipping of course. Ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha OK, so I didn't actually laugh out loud, but politely declined thier offer to buy the item completely sight unseen and then pay to return it if I didn't like it. I don't know the people that work there, and I'm sure some of them are very nice people. But thier "policy" of buying something sight unseen - including themselves not having ever seen it either! - really disturbs me. I certainly would not ever buy anything of great value that way!! |
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Post#15 @
04-30-06
, 12:12 PM
I would never in a million years buy a diamond from a vendor who dropships!!! That being said....on average, how much would I save in $$ if I did? Just curious widget |
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This Is A Two Cent Comment
Post#16 @
04-30-06
, 12:33 PM
Since I've not been able to obtain copies of the Certs for these stones, I've not been able to analyse them with our system and determine their eCS. So that the point can be made that an eCS of 1.000 is proof of IDEAL CUT |
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Re: Buying An Internet Diamond By The Numbers: It Doesn't Work.
Post#17 @
04-30-06
, 03:20 PM
Great post Barry. Thanks. Merv, you can get the rest of the reported data except the plotting diagram or photomicrograph for any stone that GIA has examined since 2000 at www.reportcheck.gia.edu if you know the weight and the report number. Can you share with us what your rules are for IDEAL CUT on a pear shape or is this proprietary information? Neil |
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Re: Buying An Internet Diamond By The Numbers: It Doesn't Work.
Post#18 @
04-30-06
, 07:25 PM
If this post demonstrates and confirms anything, it is that there is no such thing as an "Ideal" fancy shape Cut. What may appeal to one consumer will not appeal to another. The "Ideal" numbers that Towlkowsky demonstrated as viable for round brilliants can not be extrapolated to fancy shapes. The architecture is different and hence light entry/exit is also different. "Ideal" is subjective, not objective. |
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These Diamonds
Post#19 @
04-30-06
, 07:38 PM
Barry, thanks to Neil I've recovered the data to run through the process. I should have the info for publication soon. Thank you for your input and help Merv |
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On the other hand...
Post#20 @
05-01-06
, 02:37 AM
The main reason that it is difficult to judge a fancy shape diamond from its "numbers" is that certs generally give too few numbers. If the reader were told that Barry's two pears further compare as follows, a very accurate impression of their quality would be communicated: GIA13876000 G/VS1 has eCS=0.985 and l:w=1.43, appraisals $3,777/$7,498 (insurance/retail) GIA14873692 D/VS1 has eCS=0.911 and l:w=1.73, appraisals $4.925/$9,593 From these numbers, we see that the the first is a much better crafted stone, that the second is the more valuable only because of its color grade and that since G and D stones both appear colorless, the G is a much better value unless one simply prefers the narrow length:width ratio of the D stone. Furthermore, the G's higher eCS might even overcome the D's color advantage for sheer sparkle. The D is cut much too shallow. I too really like your photos! How to contact Judah? |
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Re: Buying An Internet Diamond By The Numbers: It Doesn't Work.
Post#21 @
05-01-06
, 09:41 AM
Wasn't it "Karnac the Magnificent" that provided the answer to a question that had not yet been asked, or was it the answer to a question he was going to ask? Whatever... since this "method" of diamond grading seems to involve some level of clairvoyance, you should already know what I think of it. Brian |
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Re: Buying An Internet Diamond By The Numbers: It Doesn't Work.
Post#22 @
05-01-06
, 11:05 AM
Merv and PeterP, You asked a direct question, which I answered directly. I asked a direct question which you’ve ducked entirely while answering one that was never asked at all (your valuations). Let me try again. What is your definition of an ideal cut pear? Surely you will agree that if a score of 1.0 is to be taken as proof of ideal cut, as you stated a few posts ago, it’s important to know what that standard is and well as understanding how your score relates to it. You've got an opportunity here to convince some smart people that your system has merit as well as to collect free peer review about it. You said you wanted to test the system, so test it. Give us the substance, not just the results. Why should anyone care about your score? Neil |
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Definition of an Ideal Cut Pear eCS1.000
Post#23 @
05-01-06
, 01:33 PM
Neil, all the rest is patented material sorry to disappoint you. But do our results match up to you dollar valuations since what we do is appraisals not diamond analysis. We'll leave that to the Gem Labs Merv |
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BRIAN/Neil et al- YOU WOULD THINK, WOULDN'T YOU?
Post#24 @
05-01-06
, 01:51 PM
After all this time that we at www.e-praise.com do not claim or aim to grade diamonds. We simply take the data from a recognized Lab Report and interpret it and arrive at a dollar valuation. I hope that you get it now since I'm tired of this nonsense. As a by product of our formulas we produced what we choose to call our eCS. We give it away freely to our clients so that they can understand more clearly the standing of the Cut Quality of the diamond that they are haveing us process. If you look closely at Pete's posting you'll see that the more desirable stone (according to the subsequent postings) came out with the highest eCS again Merv |
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Re: Buying An Internet Diamond By The Numbers: It Doesn't Work.
"Desireable" ? According to whom? Both diamonds are beautiful but differ in their refraction of different components of light and in their shape character. The Cut Quality of both diamonds is excellent and choice of one over the other is based on a consumer's subjective considerations. Assigning a higher appraised valuation for one of these diamonds over the other based on a "numbers" formula does neither diamond justice. |
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