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Old dznr112
 
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How do you know a good sapphire?
Quote this post and reply to it Post#1 @ 03-26-06 , 09:04 PM


Is a good sapphire darker or lighter? My boyfriend bought me a tacori engagement ring and the sapphires are so dark they almost look black, so I'm not that crazy about the ring.. however, it is platinum and it has a nice size diamond...I will attach a pic later...


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Re: How do you know a good sapphire?
Quote this post and reply to it Post#2 @ 03-26-06 , 11:52 PM


Are we talking quality or preferences here?

Sounds like you would have preferred a lighter colour, whereas some people like the darker one.

David from DBL said something once about gemstones that really stuck with me - they should shine like a diamond...ok maybe that sounds like a big ask..but just see some of the pictures of rings they have made and you will see what I mean. Yoohoo Webgal, David...that pic with the two sapphires...you know the one....

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Tacori ring
Quote this post and reply to it Post#3 @ 03-27-06 , 12:08 AM


Thanks, the ring is gorgeous but they are set ina very antique way..Bezel set with a trapeziodal shape..I'm trying to download a pic but not having luck

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Re: How do you know a good sapphire?
Quote this post and reply to it Post#4 @ 03-27-06 , 06:42 AM


Hi dznr112
Welcome to DT.
As with most colored stones it is all about the COLOR. The more intense the better. Lighter or darker is in the eye of the beholder. Medium tone with intense color is the most valuable.

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Re: How do you know a good sapphire?
Quote this post and reply to it Post#5 @ 03-27-06 , 02:54 PM


I've always read/heard that dark sapphires that are "inky" (almost black) in color are the least desireable and are the most common.

I would think a company like Tacori would use something more in the medium/bright range.

If you don't like them, can your jeweler ask Tacori to replace them with better stones?


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Sapphires
Quote this post and reply to it Post#6 @ 03-28-06 , 11:52 AM


I am sorry to say that sapphires that are black or very dark in color are actually less valuable then lighter ones. Most shopping channels now a days try to promote those inky blackish blue sapphires they are very cheap only a 25 dollars a carat or so if you buy from a wholesaler. I dont mean to make you feel bad but i have see so many people buying these dark sapphires thinking they are worth something or going to be worth lost of bucks.

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Re: Sapphires
Quote this post and reply to it Post#7 @ 04-05-06 , 07:41 PM


Quote:
Originally Posted by GreatGems
I am sorry to say that sapphires that are black or very dark in color are actually less valuable then lighter ones. Most shopping channels now a days try to promote those inky blackish blue sapphires they are very cheap only a 25 dollars a carat or so if you buy from a wholesaler. I dont mean to make you feel bad but i have see so many people buying these dark sapphires thinking they are worth something or going to be worth lost of bucks.


I have bought the inky black sapphires for as low as 65 cents per carat!! But what you say is true. The best color in almost every colored stone is a medium to medium dark tone with a pure primary hue. No secondary brown or gray.

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Re: Sapphires
Quote this post and reply to it Post#8 @ 04-05-06 , 08:08 PM


Quote:
Originally Posted by giacadman
The best color in almost every colored stone is a medium to medium dark tone with a pure primary hue.



Can you (or anyone else) post a photo of a superlative one and also a less-than-superlative one?


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Re: Sapphires
Quote this post and reply to it Post#9 @ 04-05-06 , 08:40 PM


Quote:
Originally Posted by yogimel
Can you (or anyone else) post a photo of a superlative one and also a less-than-superlative one?


It is not so much as a superlative one vs non. Firstly colored stones do not photograph well. There needs to be a balance between the tone of the color ( light vs dark), the hue of the color ( blue vs greenish blue ) and the brilliance of the cut (sparkle). All those factors will affect the price based on the type of stone and size (carat weight).

When looking for a sapphire or ruby the absolute best would be a medium to medium dark tone. There should be no or minimal areas of black or very dark color (distiction) as well as no area of no or little color (window). If you are looking for a ruby the ideal color would be pure red with no purple, brown, gray or orange as a seconday hue in the stone. If you are looking for a blue sapphire the same would be true. There should be no seconday hue of green (as in greenish blue) or gray or brown etc.

Hope I helped a little.

Louis

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Re: How do you know a good sapphire?
Quote this post and reply to it Post#10 @ 04-06-06 , 05:01 AM


You did indeed, Louis. Thank you for elaborating on your original post.


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Re: How do you know a good sapphire?
Quote this post and reply to it Post#11 @ 04-06-06 , 06:04 AM


I posted a link to my website that has the chapter on sapphires and has the images that would answer anll your questions but, of course, it was removed for being "promotional." God forbid someone on one of these forums should get real unbiased information.

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author: Secrets Of The Gem Trade, The Connoisseurs Guide To Precious Gemstones


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Re: How do you know a good sapphire?
Quote this post and reply to it Post#12 @ 04-06-06 , 09:40 AM


Rather than post the link, why not just quietly post the photos here on this thread? There are ways to get "real unbiased information" out to the consumer that still remains within the guidelines of this forum.


(And now a personal observation - I take off my 'moderator hat': For all of your myriad of complaints about this discussion forum, your distaste for the forum and its administrators seems to not be much of a deterrent to you continuing to come here and "discuss". Your borderline-spam closing to every one of your posts, i.e. the title of your book, is allowed to remain pretty much ad lib - yet you are unable to refrain from getting in as many pot shots as you can, to the very forum that allows you this courtesy? (and yes; it is a courtesy).

Take Home Message: your little remarks will not change Forum policy. Consequently, they only serve to make you look petulant and whiny; and certainly not like the trade professional you evidently aspire to be seen as. We've seen many 'mavericks' come through these gates who think they can change the forum by throwing their perceived importance around - and it gets very tiresome to see it again and again. Very.

Moderator hat goes back on.)

Peace.


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Re: How do you know a good sapphire?
Quote this post and reply to it Post#13 @ 04-06-06 , 09:43 AM


Quote:
Originally Posted by RichardWise
I posted a link to my website....it was removed for being "promotional." Richard W. Wise, author: Secrets Of The Gem Trade, The Connoisseurs Guide To Precious Gemstones


Main Entry:promotion....
2 : the act of furthering the growth or development of something; especially : the furtherance of the acceptance and sale of merchandise through advertising, publicity, or discounting


If it walks like a duck, sounds like a duck....

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Re: How do you know a good sapphire?
Quote this post and reply to it Post#14 @ 04-06-06 , 10:08 AM


We carry Tacori as well and the ones that I have in stock with sapphires are a nice blue color. If you are unhappy with the color, ask them to change them out for a sapphire that is more to your liking and a nice blue color.


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Re: How do you know a good sapphire?
Quote this post and reply to it Post#15 @ 04-06-06 , 01:18 PM


Yogimel or Gilbert Z,

Interesting observations. You call my reference to my book "borderline spam" I call it a credential like MD or GG or Ph.d. It provides the reader with a basis for determining if the information being provided is any good. Unlike you, for example, my name is on my posts, my authorship is part of my "signature"I don't find it necessary to hide my identity behind some silly handle. And bye the bye since it is a "non-jewelry" site as defined by your rules I am not sure why my signature is blocked but then your rules are, as you say, interpreted by you.

You ask why I don't post images. I am a dealer and I also sell gems. For a dealer to post images, that would truly be promotional, would it not? I wonder, are you really so concerned about "promotion", the people on this site sell gems not books and you pretend to give information free. or is it accurate information you truly fear. .

You will recall I have twice enquired about becoming a "Network Jeweler" which, it seems is the key to free speech on this forum and in the six months or so since I first contacted you I got one call (two weeks ago) from someone called "Nathan" who was rude to my secretary and would not leave either his name or phone number. I'm beginning to feel unwanted.

Fact is much (though not all) of the information being provided on this site is incorrect, self-serving, misleading and purely and simply bogus. Of course it is not possible to critique that information and those who provide it because that would violate the rules and since many of those posters use an alias rather than their real names, they can't be held accountable anyway.

What you call my "contempt" for this forum is limited to the hypocritical manner in which it is run. You claim to provide a free exchange of ideas, to be a forum for helpful information but fess up. This forum is about selling gems. What you really specialize in is sales talk not accurate information. Nothing wrong with selling stuff but lets call a spade a spade and knock off all the holier than thou crap about "whining".

Now, if you would like to come out from behind the electronic mask, send me an email with your name and address, I will send you a free copy of my book and you can evaluate the information contained therein, all 80,000 words and 200 footnotes. I'd be interested in your take on it, post it online if you like.

Richard W. Wise, G.G.
Author: Secrets Of The Gem Trade, The Connoisseurs Guide To Precious Gemstones.


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Just for the record:
Quote this post and reply to it Post#16 @ 04-06-06 , 06:02 PM


Quote:
Originally Posted by RichardWise
Yogimel or Gilbert Z,


This post was drafted by me and me alone. No admin input.

Quote:
Interesting observations. You call my reference to my book "borderline spam" I call it a credential like MD or GG or Ph.d. It provides the reader with a basis for determining if the information being provided is any good.


Trust me and believe me, there are many, MANY other ways to establish credibility to this forum's membership than having either a label or a series of letters after your name. You seriously underestimate the collective intelligence of our consumers.



Quote:
You ask why I don't post images. I am a dealer and I also sell gems. For a dealer to post images, that would truly be promotional, would it not?


Absolutely not. You can easily post images and not have it be a billboard. Others have done it quite successfully before you.


Quote:
You will recall I have twice enquired about becoming a "Network Jeweler"


No, I cannot recall. I am not privy to the requests for Network Jeweler status. That is the jurisdiction of the administrators.



Quote:
I got one call (two weeks ago) from someone called "Nathan" ...


Nathan is the proprietor of DiamondRing.com


Quote:
...who would not leave either his name or phone number. I'm beginning to feel unwanted.


But you just stated the name of the person who called.

Quote:
Fact is much (though not all) of the information being provided on this site is incorrect, self-serving, misleading and purely and simply bogus. Of course it is not possible to critique that information and those who provide it because that would violate the rules and since many of those posters use an alias rather than their real names, they can't be held accountable anyway.


Anyone, ANYONE is entitled to express an opinion around here. Anyone is entitled to debate a point made in any post. What we DO care about is the manner in which any arguement is made. It's not what one says that matters, so much as the manner in which one says it.

Quote:
What you call my "contempt" for this forum is limited to the hypocritical manner in which it is run.


Which fails to explain why you still choose to post here.

Quote:
Now, if you would like to come out from behind the electronic mask, send me an email with your name and address, I will send you a free copy of my book and you can evaluate the information contained therein, all 80,000 words and 200 footnotes. I'd be interested in your take on it, post it online if you like.



I am not at liberty to accept your offer; but thank you.


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Re: How do you know a good sapphire?
Quote this post and reply to it Post#17 @ 04-06-06 , 07:28 PM


Yogimel, (thought you were also GilbertZ, my apoligies)

At the start of my career I decided to learn about gemstones. I had done a fair number of research papers in college and figured I would just buy the books, do the reading and voila.

Well I bought the books and guess what, I learned about lore, what Pliny said, geography, crystallography, gemology and so forth but there was really nothing in print that discussed quality. When I asked dealers about quality in gems their usual response to avoid the question or to ask "well what do you like?" or beauty is in the eye of the beholder, blah, blah, blah...

For 5,000 or more years, Ignorance has been the stock and trade of the gem business. So, being a contrary sort of fellow, I decided to travel the world ask a lot of questions and find out all there was to know about gem quality then tell everybody.

So 25 years, five continents and 40 published articles later I wrote the book Secrets Of The Gem Trade, you know the "borderline spam" title that I, oddly enough consider part of my signature.

Why do I post, for the same reason. I believe that accurate information, far from being against the trade's interest, is exactly what is needed to expand interest in gemstones. We live in the Age of Information, with the advent of the internet we might call it the Age of Disinformation. About 90% of the questions asked by consumers on this forum are answered in that book.

My posts on this forum are usually in answer to questions on the topic of quality. However, I am not interested in re-inventing the wheel. Should I write an article on your forum when ther is an entire chapter with images free for anyone to read on the book's website?

Embrace me or ban me, your choice.


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Re: How do you know a good sapphire?
Quote this post and reply to it Post#18 @ 04-06-06 , 09:27 PM


Good job girls explaining everything.


Here is a pic of a nice sapphire we are in the process of mounting in a ring. It is hard to capture the total beauty of a gemstone by just a still photo though.


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Re: How do you know a good sapphire?
Quote this post and reply to it Post#19 @ 04-07-06 , 12:14 AM


That is the one David. I think that is just a great example of what a gemstone should, and can, do.

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Re: How do you know a good sapphire?
Quote this post and reply to it Post#20 @ 04-07-06 , 10:48 AM


Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad
It is hard to capture the total beauty of a gemstone by just a still photo though.


I think that you're being a bit too lenient in your view that it is hard to capture the beauty of a gemstone in a still photo Brad. I think that it's pretty much impossible. The stone that you've shown, for instance, shows hints of violet as well as a very attractive blue. I'd bet a couple donuts that your stone would show a distinct change of color in different lighting situations, making it even more attractive in my mind.

I've attached a few pictures of two sapphires that show how different thay can look under different lighting conditions. This is a pretty good example of how pictures can show why gems can look differently on your hand, than they do in a picture. This is the reason that you really need to ask questions of the person that you are buying from and to get pictures from different angles and under different lighting conditions.

The first two pictures are of a "Ceylon" sapphire, (who knows where it really came from, but Ceylon sounds good), The difference in depth of color comes from a very slight change in the camera angle.

The next three pictures are of an Australian sapphire using different lights give an idea of what it looks like. It doesn't ACTUALLY look like any of these pictures. It actually has a sort of glowing ember with a slight violet overtone under the conditions that the darkest picture was taken and the camera just can't pick up on it.

I just love sapphires. Even those that are not considered so desirable. The teal greens are cheap and if you get one without any brownish or yellowish overtones they are just beautiful. The very pale colors are kind of hard to find, since most of them get beryllium treated now, but they too can be very attractive if properly cut,(not to mention VERY inexpensive for such a hard, durable and bright stone).

Here are some links to pictures from sites that any of the vendors here can buy from. If you want to know a price at Pala Gems you can ask most any of the vendors here. The Natural Sapphire Company will wholesale to any of the vendors here and most of us will swing a better deal on a combination of the stone and setting, when purchased together. Even if you just like shopping around these guys have a bunch of really great pictures.

http://www.palagems.com/php/db_sear...ind+All+Matches
http://www.thenaturalsapphirecom p...Catego ry=Blue


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Re: How do you know a good sapphire?
Quote this post and reply to it Post#21 @ 04-07-06 , 05:03 PM


Here is that same sapphire under a different lighting condition. Basically flourescent light about 12 feet above.


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Re: How do you know a good sapphire?
Quote this post and reply to it Post#22 @ 04-08-06 , 08:07 PM


Oh my gosh I'd love that stone in a platinum mounting. I wonder what that would cost. What are the dimensions of that saphire? Mmmmm It would be gorgeous with tiny little diamonds set all around it.

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Re: How do you know a good sapphire?
Quote this post and reply to it Post#23 @ 04-09-06 , 12:48 AM


Hi Raech Sure would. It is a 3.09 ct. oval Ceylon sapphire. Measures 9.65-7.42. Cost of $4900.


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Re: How do you know a good sapphire?
Quote this post and reply to it Post#24 @ 04-13-06 , 04:25 AM


i'm in the process of trying to choose a sapphire, i've taken a lot of photos so i thought everyone might find these helpful. they were taken in a variety of lighting conditions:

under not so bright flourescent lighting:


outdoor, overcast and mostly cloudy






flourescent, directly under


underexposed image, under 60 watt lamp



direct afternoon sunlight:





afternoon, indirect light:


outdoor, overcast:



i have many more images i haven't picked out yet, but i hope these are helpful. any advice on choosing a stone would help me as well! =)

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Re: How do you know a good sapphire?
Quote this post and reply to it Post#25 @ 04-13-06 , 07:07 AM


IbTopaz,

You are certainly working hard. For camparison, here is an image of a sapphire that ranks in the top 1% of quality. It is a natural (untreated) Sri Lankan stone though a nowledgeable dealer what call it "Kashmir color".

Your images are difficult to interpret. Best I can say is they appear to be very good quality stones that are a bit too light in tone to qualify as top-gem. Can't quite tell if either have a gray secondary or any green.

Good hunting.

Richard

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