Sign in or Register Home
DiamondRing.comYour Online Jewelry Shopping Network
 Ideal Cut Diamond Studs at James Allen 
Buy Sell Education Forum Directory Blog  
View Recent Products View Posts Ask Us Ask our Network Jewelers for a quote on a diamond/gemstone/jewelry




 
Post Reply New Thread
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old Brad

    Brad's Avatar
 
My Profile
Registered User : offline
Joined: 10-15-99
Posts: 5,042
Years:
 
My Feedback (49)
Feedback In: 
+29  0
Feedback Out:
+48  0
 
My Karma
Power: 261
Points: 13184
Brad has a reputation beyond repute Brad has a reputation beyond repute Brad has a reputation beyond repute Brad has a reputation beyond repute Brad has a reputation beyond repute Brad has a reputation beyond repute Brad has a reputation beyond repute Brad has a reputation beyond repute Brad has a reputation beyond repute Brad has a reputation beyond repute Brad has a reputation beyond repute
Hits: Out=8807, In=2
Referrals: 2


Are the AGS Princess Cuts All That?
Quote this post and reply to it Post#1 @ 09-14-05 , 12:53 PM


Just got finished viewing some of the princess cuts that are being graded for performance from the AGS lab.? If you are looking for top light performance and counting on the performance grade given by AGS to deliver, I personally think you will be disappointed.

The determination seems to very broad and not exactly on target. Just goes to show you, you still can't rely on paper to express a diamond's beauty or light performance.

After comparing some of my own goods next to these AGS performance graded princess cuts, I found them to be lacking and basically ordinary, nothing special. Maybe I will see some more, but it seems to be giving great marks to stones with heavy makes and large tables. This is great for the cutters but not for the consumer that wants top make. We have been stocking what I consider to be some of the top performing princess cuts, and the AGS ones I've seen so far didn't make the cut.

Here is an example of one that I tested next to one of our own stones.
The one on the left is from the AGS and the one on the right is one of our picks. As you can see, not a whole lot of light returning from the AGS one. To the eye, it wasn't the brightest student.


Brad signature
DBOF.com

We sell diamonds not paper
Attached Images
AGS princess #2.jpg
 
Diamond Search:

Carat:  to  Color:  to  Clarity:  to  


Old susi
 
My Profile
Registered User : offline
Joined: 01-27-03
Posts: 948
Years:
 
My Karma
Power: 75
Points: 13
susi is on a distinguished road
Hits: Out=0, In=2


Re: Are the AGS Princess Cuts All That?
Quote this post and reply to it Post#2 @ 09-14-05 , 01:09 PM


Brad....facinating! I am assuming (?) that you "see" the same results when you put them side by side and just look at them ??


susi signature
Susi
Old Brad

    Brad's Avatar
 
My Profile
Registered User : offline
Joined: 10-15-99
Posts: 5,042
Years:
 
My Feedback (49)
Feedback In: 
+29  0
Feedback Out:
+48  0
 
My Karma
Power: 261
Points: 13184
Brad has a reputation beyond repute Brad has a reputation beyond repute Brad has a reputation beyond repute Brad has a reputation beyond repute Brad has a reputation beyond repute Brad has a reputation beyond repute Brad has a reputation beyond repute Brad has a reputation beyond repute Brad has a reputation beyond repute Brad has a reputation beyond repute Brad has a reputation beyond repute
Hits: Out=8807, In=2
Referrals: 2


Re: Are the AGS Princess Cuts All That?
Quote this post and reply to it Post#3 @ 09-14-05 , 01:12 PM


Yes. Comparing to the eye there is a visible difference in appearance.


Brad signature
DBOF.com

We sell diamonds not paper
Old Brad

    Brad's Avatar
 
My Profile
Registered User : offline
Joined: 10-15-99
Posts: 5,042
Years:
 
My Feedback (49)
Feedback In: 
+29  0
Feedback Out:
+48  0
 
My Karma
Power: 261
Points: 13184
Brad has a reputation beyond repute Brad has a reputation beyond repute Brad has a reputation beyond repute Brad has a reputation beyond repute Brad has a reputation beyond repute Brad has a reputation beyond repute Brad has a reputation beyond repute Brad has a reputation beyond repute Brad has a reputation beyond repute Brad has a reputation beyond repute Brad has a reputation beyond repute
Hits: Out=8807, In=2
Referrals: 2


Re: Are the AGS Princess Cuts All That?
Quote this post and reply to it Post#4 @ 09-14-05 , 06:18 PM


I just read recently how G.I.A spent 15 years of research in developing their new cut grade system for round brilliants. I think this was a good idea not to rush into something.

With the AGS attempting to provide performance grading on Princess cuts, not sure how much research really went into it. Hope that trip to Russia wasn`t it

Evidently it will be a cutters dream come true. They can now have mediocre princess cuts that will sound good on paper and theory.

A princess cut labeled Ideal from A.G.S., may not be all that great, but it will sound good.

I remember through the years how some would complain that the A.G.S. system for rounds was too broad. This one with the princess cuts seems to be wide as the Grand Canyon.


Brad signature
DBOF.com

We sell diamonds not paper
Old Brad

    Brad's Avatar
 
My Profile
Registered User : offline
Joined: 10-15-99
Posts: 5,042
Years:
 
My Feedback (49)
Feedback In: 
+29  0
Feedback Out:
+48  0
 
My Karma
Power: 261
Points: 13184
Brad has a reputation beyond repute Brad has a reputation beyond repute Brad has a reputation beyond repute Brad has a reputation beyond repute Brad has a reputation beyond repute Brad has a reputation beyond repute Brad has a reputation beyond repute Brad has a reputation beyond repute Brad has a reputation beyond repute Brad has a reputation beyond repute Brad has a reputation beyond repute
Hits: Out=8807, In=2
Referrals: 2


Re: Are the AGS Princess Cuts All That?
Quote this post and reply to it Post#5 @ 09-14-05 , 08:08 PM


I see some of the manufactures have jumped on board already and are now 20% more for a princess with a high A.G.S. performance grade. If your going to pay 20% extra I would expect to see some real sizzle.

The three I saw today were not da shiznit.


Brad signature
DBOF.com

We sell diamonds not paper
Old Captfun

    Captfun's Avatar
 
My Profile
Registered User : offline
Joined: 09-01-03
Posts: 146
Years:
 
My Karma
Power: 65
Points: 10
Captfun is on a distinguished road


Re: Are the AGS Princess Cuts All That?
Quote this post and reply to it Post#6 @ 09-14-05 , 09:41 PM


Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad
Just got finished viewing some of the princess cuts that are being graded for performance from the AGS lab.?



Have to agree. I've been looking at them for awhile and I'm unimpressed. For the most part they appear quite average and in a couple of cases have looked plain nasty.

IMHO the color grading at AGS has also gone to hell. But I digress.

In a nutshell, AGS, in their rush to overtake GIA in consumer acceptance, has bitten off more than they can chew. I'm reminded of that wonderful scene in 'Dead Poet Society' in which Robin Williams' character explains a textbook system for graphing the beauty of poetry . . . and then has the students rip it from the book.

Imagine going to an art museum and discovering someone had created a 0 to 10 scale for how beautiful the paintings were? What does it mean if you really like a painting and it scores a 7? A 2? Maybe a 9? What would the world do if it suddenly discovered the Mona Lisa was hideous?

Lesson to the buyer . . . there is STILL no substitute for observation. It's just not possible for someone else to tell you what you like.


stephen mickam G.G., G.J. (GIA)

Old BrianKnox

    BrianKnox's Avatar
 
My Profile
Registered User : offline
Joined: 08-26-03
Posts: 2,429
Years:
Last seen wearing: Cordovan shoes with white socks
Visit my blog :  August?s Custom Engagement Ring Spotlight
 
My Feedback (21)
Feedback In: 
+18  0
Feedback Out:
+21  0
 
My Karma
Power: 442
Points: 35458
BrianKnox has a reputation beyond repute BrianKnox has a reputation beyond repute BrianKnox has a reputation beyond repute BrianKnox has a reputation beyond repute BrianKnox has a reputation beyond repute BrianKnox has a reputation beyond repute BrianKnox has a reputation beyond repute BrianKnox has a reputation beyond repute BrianKnox has a reputation beyond repute BrianKnox has a reputation beyond repute BrianKnox has a reputation beyond repute
Hits: Out=4203, In=260
Referrals: 23


Re: Are the AGS Princess Cuts All That?
Quote this post and reply to it Post#7 @ 09-15-05 , 08:32 AM


To use a mixed metaphor that I have been saving


It seems to me that AGS has shot themselves in the foot and all that remains to be seen is whether this self inflicted wound becomes a mortal wound or not.


Brian


BrianKnox signature
Knox Jewelers / Minneapolis, Minnesota
Knoxrings.com 1-888-347-4493
Old Jan

    Jan's Avatar
 
My Profile
Registered User : offline
Joined: 06-12-99
Posts: 7,748
Years:
 
My Feedback (49)
Feedback In: 
+29  0
Feedback Out:
+48  0
 
My Karma
Power: 271
Points: 11368
Jan has a reputation beyond repute Jan has a reputation beyond repute Jan has a reputation beyond repute Jan has a reputation beyond repute Jan has a reputation beyond repute Jan has a reputation beyond repute Jan has a reputation beyond repute Jan has a reputation beyond repute Jan has a reputation beyond repute Jan has a reputation beyond repute Jan has a reputation beyond repute
Hits: Out=16781, In=5943
Referrals: 24


Re: Are the AGS Princess Cuts All That?
Quote this post and reply to it Post#8 @ 09-15-05 , 10:35 AM


I hear they are doing some other shapes in the near future as well. I guess there isn't much hope for those either from seeing the princess cuts.


Jan signature
For those that want to know the TRUTH about diamonds, just ask

Diamond Brokers of Florida
Old Melymel800
 
My Profile
Registered User : offline
Joined: 04-20-05
Posts: 80
Years:
 
My Karma
Power: 57
Points: 10
Melymel800 is on a distinguished road


Re: Are the AGS Princess Cuts All That?
Quote this post and reply to it Post#9 @ 09-15-05 , 10:09 PM


Brad,

I would have to agree with what you are stating about how AGS is rating a Zero as high light performance...and to the eye it is just not up to par.

Mike had a branded stone (name withheld) sent to the appraiser. We were so excited to see this stone. There was so much hype about this stone on the forums. When we met with the appraiser I waited impatiently while he ripped the package open. I told him to wait a minute that I was not ready to see this stone. I had the appraiser wait a minute so I could prepare myself to see this "wonderful stone"...
So he flips it over...I said to myself that's it? R u kidding me. Mike and I looked at each other like "I thought this was supposed to be magnificent"
He says so what do you think..? I reply "its ok" The appraiser was totally taken aback. He praised it on its contrast. Mike says it doesn't sparkle.

Yeah that was the end to of that stones short life span with me. It was cut to Triple Zero grade. You could see all the contrast. It was almost perfect...except to my eyes.

Jus goes to prove...once again that you HAVE to rely on your eyes when it comes to picking out your stone. I am glad we did!

Old yogimel

    yogimel's Avatar
 
My Profile
View profile photo
Registered User : offline
Joined: 05-25-02
Posts: 2,397
Years:
Last seen wearing: My game-face
Visit my blog :  August?s Custom Engagement Ring Spotlight
 
My Feedback (1)
Feedback In: 
+1  0
Feedback Out:
+1  0
 
My Karma
Power: 146
Points: 5415
yogimel has a reputation beyond repute yogimel has a reputation beyond repute yogimel has a reputation beyond repute yogimel has a reputation beyond repute yogimel has a reputation beyond repute yogimel has a reputation beyond repute yogimel has a reputation beyond repute yogimel has a reputation beyond repute yogimel has a reputation beyond repute yogimel has a reputation beyond repute yogimel has a reputation beyond repute
Hits: Out=0, In=3


Re: Are the AGS Princess Cuts All That?
Quote this post and reply to it Post#10 @ 09-16-05 , 07:16 AM


How do they decide upon which shape they will bestow a cut grade? Why princess this time, over all the others?


yogimel signature
1. NO MARVELING AT NATURE
2. NO UNSUPERVISED READING


www.SimsTalk.com

~Remembering Mercier~
Old Captfun

    Captfun's Avatar
 
My Profile
Registered User : offline
Joined: 09-01-03
Posts: 146
Years:
 
My Karma
Power: 65
Points: 10
Captfun is on a distinguished road


Re: Are the AGS Princess Cuts All That?
Quote this post and reply to it Post#11 @ 09-16-05 , 11:39 AM


Quote:
Originally Posted by yogimel
How do they decide upon which shape they will bestow a cut grade? Why princess this time, over all the others?


Simply based on popularity. They've been grading rounds for quite some time and recently rolled out the cut system. The grades for princess cuts followed shortly after. Best guess is marquis will be next, then maybe ovals, step cuts, etc.

After this debacle, I'm not sure I really care anymore. I'll wait for the new GIA reports after the first year. Not holding my breath, though.

Old Talak
 
My Profile
Registered User : offline
Joined: 06-20-01
Posts: 53
Years:
 
My Karma
Power: 73
Points: 10
Talak is on a distinguished road


Re: Are the AGS Princess Cuts All That?
Quote this post and reply to it Post#12 @ 09-16-05 , 01:02 PM


Quote:
Originally Posted by yogimel
How do they decide upon which shape they will bestow a cut grade? Why princess this time, over all the others?

Guess!


Talak signature
"I'm a lover not a fighter."
Attached Images
flower_template.gif
 
Old Brad

    Brad's Avatar
 
My Profile
Registered User : offline
Joined: 10-15-99
Posts: 5,042
Years:
 
My Feedback (49)
Feedback In: 
+29  0
Feedback Out:
+48  0
 
My Karma
Power: 261
Points: 13184
Brad has a reputation beyond repute Brad has a reputation beyond repute Brad has a reputation beyond repute Brad has a reputation beyond repute Brad has a reputation beyond repute Brad has a reputation beyond repute Brad has a reputation beyond repute Brad has a reputation beyond repute Brad has a reputation beyond repute Brad has a reputation beyond repute Brad has a reputation beyond repute
Hits: Out=8807, In=2
Referrals: 2


Re: Are the AGS Princess Cuts All That?
Quote this post and reply to it Post#13 @ 09-19-05 , 02:27 PM


Quote:
Originally Posted by Melymel800
Brad,

I would have to agree with what you are stating about how AGS is rating a Zero as high light performance...and to the eye it is just not up to par.

Mike had a branded stone (name withheld) sent to the appraiser. We were so excited to see this stone. There was so much hype about this stone on the forums. When we met with the appraiser I waited impatiently while he ripped the package open. I told him to wait a minute that I was not ready to see this stone. I had the appraiser wait a minute so I could prepare myself to see this "wonderful stone"...
So he flips it over...I said to myself that's it? R u kidding me. Mike and I looked at each other like "I thought this was supposed to be magnificent"
He says so what do you think..? I reply "its ok" The appraiser was totally taken aback. He praised it on its contrast. Mike says it doesn't sparkle.

Yeah that was the end to of that stones short life span with me. It was cut to Triple Zero grade. You could see all the contrast. It was almost perfect...except to my eyes.

Jus goes to prove...once again that you HAVE to rely on your eyes when it comes to picking out your stone. I am glad we did!



Hi Melymel,
Yes this thread has caught the attention of a particular appraiser on another forum, and possibly the seller of the nixed princess cut you are talking about. Does his name rhyme with Stink?

Anyhow I'm glad you were able to determine what you like with your own eyes and not be caught up in some marketing hype.

Seems now that somebody wants to denigrate me for bringing this information forward.


Brad signature
DBOF.com

We sell diamonds not paper
Old susi
 
My Profile
Registered User : offline
Joined: 01-27-03
Posts: 948
Years:
 
My Karma
Power: 75
Points: 13
susi is on a distinguished road
Hits: Out=0, In=2


Re: Are the AGS Princess Cuts All That?
Quote this post and reply to it Post#14 @ 09-19-05 , 02:43 PM


Brad...how do the AGS 0 cut rounds measure up when you run test THEM for light performance?


susi signature
Susi
Old barry

    barry's Avatar
 
My Profile
Registered User : offline
Joined: 11-01-00
Posts: 2,860
Years:
 
My Karma
Power: 171
Points: 6836
barry has a reputation beyond repute barry has a reputation beyond repute barry has a reputation beyond repute barry has a reputation beyond repute barry has a reputation beyond repute barry has a reputation beyond repute barry has a reputation beyond repute barry has a reputation beyond repute barry has a reputation beyond repute barry has a reputation beyond repute barry has a reputation beyond repute
Hits: Out=30925, In=3585
Referrals: 26


Re: Are the AGS Princess Cuts All That?
Quote this post and reply to it Post#15 @ 09-19-05 , 03:58 PM


Princess Popularity.

Nothing easy about trying to "standardize" Princess Cuts. They are tough.

Just ask Melymel.

Old barry

    barry's Avatar
 
My Profile
Registered User : offline
Joined: 11-01-00
Posts: 2,860
Years:
 
My Karma
Power: 171
Points: 6836
barry has a reputation beyond repute barry has a reputation beyond repute barry has a reputation beyond repute barry has a reputation beyond repute barry has a reputation beyond repute barry has a reputation beyond repute barry has a reputation beyond repute barry has a reputation beyond repute barry has a reputation beyond repute barry has a reputation beyond repute barry has a reputation beyond repute
Hits: Out=30925, In=3585
Referrals: 26


Re: Are the AGS Princess Cuts All That?
Quote this post and reply to it Post#16 @ 09-19-05 , 04:42 PM


Princess is actually tougher than a round.

Old Brad

    Brad's Avatar
 
My Profile
Registered User : offline
Joined: 10-15-99
Posts: 5,042
Years:
 
My Feedback (49)
Feedback In: 
+29  0
Feedback Out:
+48  0
 
My Karma
Power: 261
Points: 13184
Brad has a reputation beyond repute Brad has a reputation beyond repute Brad has a reputation beyond repute Brad has a reputation beyond repute Brad has a reputation beyond repute Brad has a reputation beyond repute Brad has a reputation beyond repute Brad has a reputation beyond repute Brad has a reputation beyond repute Brad has a reputation beyond repute Brad has a reputation beyond repute
Hits: Out=8807, In=2
Referrals: 2


Re: Are the AGS Princess Cuts All That?
Quote this post and reply to it Post#17 @ 09-19-05 , 04:56 PM


Funny how some of the same appraisers, cut nuts, and sellers that for years openly criticized the AGS system for rounds now willfully embrace their new system for princess cuts lickety split. ?

Did they think that all the diamonds that were graded for performance by AGS were going to look the same? I mean they didn't look the same with their cut system for rounds did they?

So now they want to make me the bad guy.

This is simple economics in action for some. Many don't want the public to know the whole truth. They want to make money the easiest way they can. They want appraisers that will pat them on the back, act as selling agents, and rubber stamp their sales. They want laboratories that make their goods sound better than they really are. They want to network with anyone that will scrub their back for a dollar. They want to pretend they cut diamonds, and dupe consumers into believing they actually know something about diamonds. Whatever angle they can use to blow smoke up the consumer's rear they will use it. . This thread was never about them, but they seem to find the need to drag me and the topics from DT over to their boring network (Yaw-N), where they attempt to brainwash consumers into submission. They want to accuse me Quote: " besmirching AGS with blatant misrepresentations". Lack of excitment I guess, maybe this will give them something to talk about. Those that want to put their battle axe in my back might want to get their facts straight,before they attack.



I'm not saying AGS is a bad laboratory. We handle some AGS graded diamonds in rounds. We still look at each and every diamond in person. I don't think every diamond will look the same within this performance grading system. There may be some nice ones and also some average looking ones. Each stone is individual.


Brad signature
DBOF.com

We sell diamonds not paper
Old Brad

    Brad's Avatar
 
My Profile
Registered User : offline
Joined: 10-15-99
Posts: 5,042
Years:
 
My Feedback (49)
Feedback In: 
+29  0
Feedback Out:
+48  0
 
My Karma
Power: 261
Points: 13184
Brad has a reputation beyond repute Brad has a reputation beyond repute Brad has a reputation beyond repute Brad has a reputation beyond repute Brad has a reputation beyond repute Brad has a reputation beyond repute Brad has a reputation beyond repute Brad has a reputation beyond repute Brad has a reputation beyond repute Brad has a reputation beyond repute Brad has a reputation beyond repute
Hits: Out=8807, In=2
Referrals: 2


Re: Are the AGS Princess Cuts All That?
Quote this post and reply to it Post#18 @ 09-19-05 , 09:22 PM


Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad
I found them to be lacking and basically ordinary, nothing special. Maybe I will see some more, but it seems to be giving great marks to stones with heavy makes and large tables. This is great for the cutters but not for the consumer that wants top make.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad

Evidently it will be a cutters dream come true. They can now have mediocre princess cuts that will sound good on paper and theory.

A princess cut labeled Ideal from A.G.S., may not be all that great, but it will sound good.



The above comments were about some that I had personally seen.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------


From memory, the most important un-truth is that the new system allows cutters to keep more weight. That is close to saying that the earth is flat.

Live long,
Paul Slegers
Infinity Diamonds
------------------------------------------

I had no idea I was going to get side barred from the planet procto, but I`m up for the study. My above comments from this thread were about some princess cuts I saw. Well Mr. Paul says what I said was un-true. So I did a little rersearch on why HE would say that, and now I know. His are even deeper than the ones I looked at.

You see he happens to sell some tagged princess cuts with the ags performance report, of course they are being hyped up by him and his associates.

They happen to have total depths in the area of 76 -78 % and pavillion depths in the 64-67%

From what I gather these would have been cut to get extra yield, "allows cutters to keep more weight."

Of course he would want to argue with facts to protect his best interest I quess.

No, I don`t think the world is flat, but I do think princess cuts with heavy makes are Fat .


Brad signature
DBOF.com

We sell diamonds not paper
Old GilbertZ

    GilbertZ's Avatar
 
My Profile
View profile photo
Technical Support : offline
Joined: 01-02-99
Posts: 2,397
Years:
Last seen wearing: My heart on my sleeve
Visit my blog Diamond Blog: Diamonds MT 2.5 Largest unseen Diamond
 
My Feedback (1)
Feedback In: 
+1  0
Feedback Out:
+1  0
 
My Karma
Power: 1000
Points: 12983
GilbertZ has a reputation beyond repute GilbertZ has a reputation beyond repute GilbertZ has a reputation beyond repute GilbertZ has a reputation beyond repute GilbertZ has a reputation beyond repute GilbertZ has a reputation beyond repute GilbertZ has a reputation beyond repute GilbertZ has a reputation beyond repute GilbertZ has a reputation beyond repute GilbertZ has a reputation beyond repute GilbertZ has a reputation beyond repute
Hits: Out=7723, In=1682
Referrals: 18


Re: Are the AGS Princess Cuts All That?
Quote this post and reply to it Post#19 @ 09-19-05 , 10:25 PM


A few people emailed me the thread this morning. I actually enjoyed it and was laughing.

Garry was right about one thing. He said it's a bit about politics. It's ALL about politics.

And I'd go further than probably any Jeweler on DT and say that AGS is overrated. This is not a new concept with us. The only official recommendation we ever made about labs here in our tutorial was GIA. This has not changed since 1998. Before the shills arrived at DT. Before they thought of building their own site. Before they were kicked out of DT. Before they cut a deal with AGS. We always said GIA/GIA/GIA.

While on our forum certain vendors have pushed AGS, the Administration of this site never did. Now that the shills have backed the wrong horse w/ financial dealings, they have to put a nice face on it. A few of them probably still don't even realize how it's going to go.

But most consumers and most trade people never set foot in a diamond forum. And I've spoken to lots of trade people about the new AGS system to see how it's being perceived. I can't recall a single person saying something positive. The handwriting is on the wall... I've been publicly saying for 2 years what would happen with the labs, and it's all coming true. And I'm just talking about the politics and business aspect.

AGS, the cut grade lab, kept growing as cut became more important. The "net" made cut even bigger. BUT, it grew so much that GIA HAD to respond. Now AGS is screwed. They didn't have much of a choice. But they didn't make their moves in the most intelligent way. A lab that uses trade people with vested interest as a substitute for a real research lab is in trouble. They will never be able to level with GIA. I'm not the biggest fan of GIA's new cut system. A bit too much modelling and not enough empirical data. But as far as business goes, that really is irrelevant...

As much as AGS grew in the 90's and 2000's, they will now shrink. Nothing we say here or they say on shillville is going to change it. They can say "let's wait and see". That's fine. Let them. They have a financial interest in seeing AGS stave off the inevitable as long as possible. Since we have no such vested interest, we can plot the line very clearly... It's so obvious...

The chains "created" IGI. By the same token, the manufacturers make the sun shine and the clouds rain for the labs. Jewelers these days buy goods w/ certs already. If the certs have AGS, the Jewelers will push AGS. If the certs have GIA, they will push GIA. And whatever the Jewelers push, the consumer will buy.

The real effect will only BEGIN to show in January. Who cares what we all have to say? For me it's just for fun to psyche out the lab business. No matter what we do, slowly slowly the manufacturers will stop using AGS. They won't need to slow down turnover with a double cert it if they have a GIA paper saying Excellent Cut.


GilbertZ signature
Old Brad

    Brad's Avatar
 
My Profile
Registered User : offline
Joined: 10-15-99
Posts: 5,042
Years:
 
My Feedback (49)
Feedback In: 
+29  0
Feedback Out:
+48  0
 
My Karma
Power: 261
Points: 13184
Brad has a reputation beyond repute Brad has a reputation beyond repute Brad has a reputation beyond repute Brad has a reputation beyond repute Brad has a reputation beyond repute Brad has a reputation beyond repute Brad has a reputation beyond repute Brad has a reputation beyond repute Brad has a reputation beyond repute Brad has a reputation beyond repute Brad has a reputation beyond repute
Hits: Out=8807, In=2
Referrals: 2


The pot calling the kettle black
Quote this post and reply to it Post#20 @ 09-19-05 , 10:47 PM


Like Wink; I too am banned from DT. The unbalanced nature of information there is upsetting and a disservice to the trade and consumers. It is a direct result of a bias in the management of the site. Leonid is to be thanks and commended for what he has offered to all of us with Proctoscope

Three cheers for Leonid!


David S. Atlas

----------------------------------------------

O.K. that was a low blow. Since Mr. Atlas was the one who brought this topic over to his own haven to mock and throw in the ring of plunder, I guess he will reap his own reward someday.

Unbalanced nature of information ? A disservice to the trade and consumers ? A direct result of bias in the management ?

As soon as anyone tells any truth over where Mr. Atlas`s hangs his pom poms , they are, ridiculed, mocked, scorned, and escorted off. This discussion, as an example, was dragged over there, and it was treated exactly in this manner. This is balanced ? As long as he is making his money off the system, green light on. It is really not smart or necessary for any " unbiased " appraisers to be so outwardly involved like this.

If everything is so balanced over there, then why the need to come here and hijack our topics ? Oh that`s right, everyone shares the same Chapstick on the " good guy " channel.


Brad signature
DBOF.com

We sell diamonds not paper
Old Brad

    Brad's Avatar
 
My Profile
Registered User : offline
Joined: 10-15-99
Posts: 5,042
Years:
 
My Feedback (49)
Feedback In: 
+29  0
Feedback Out:
+48  0
 
My Karma
Power: 261
Points: 13184
Brad has a reputation beyond repute Brad has a reputation beyond repute Brad has a reputation beyond repute Brad has a reputation beyond repute Brad has a reputation beyond repute Brad has a reputation beyond repute Brad has a reputation beyond repute Brad has a reputation beyond repute Brad has a reputation beyond repute Brad has a reputation beyond repute Brad has a reputation beyond repute
Hits: Out=8807, In=2
Referrals: 2


Re: The pot calling the kettle black
Quote this post and reply to it Post#21 @ 09-20-05 , 10:38 AM


Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad
Like Wink; I too am banned from DT. The unbalanced nature of information there is upsetting and a disservice to the trade and consumers. It is a direct result of a bias in the management of the site. Leonid is to be thanks and commended for what he has offered to all of us with Proctoscope

Three cheers for Leonid!


David S. Atlas

----------------------------------------------



.



Quote: If you want to roll on the floor laughing, go take a new look at the original thread on Diamond Talk. Since I created this thread, there is a last reply from bad Brad that is the quintessential response when there is nothing left to say........Stuff like that is what separates the men from the boys! What a way to show one's true self.

There was NOTHING in my orignal post here that downgraded anyone or anything. Other people post what they will, but the truth is sometimes painful, isn't it?


David S. Atlas

************************* ************************* *****

Yes reading the above comment, he said nothing at all about anyone.??


Brad signature
DBOF.com

We sell diamonds not paper
Old Brad

    Brad's Avatar
 
My Profile
Registered User : offline
Joined: 10-15-99
Posts: 5,042
Years:
 
My Feedback (49)
Feedback In: 
+29  0
Feedback Out:
+48  0
 
My Karma
Power: 261
Points: 13184
Brad has a reputation beyond repute Brad has a reputation beyond repute Brad has a reputation beyond repute Brad has a reputation beyond repute Brad has a reputation beyond repute Brad has a reputation beyond repute Brad has a reputation beyond repute Brad has a reputation beyond repute Brad has a reputation beyond repute Brad has a reputation beyond repute Brad has a reputation beyond repute
Hits: Out=8807, In=2
Referrals: 2


The Great Manipulator
Quote this post and reply to it Post#22 @ 09-20-05 , 10:55 AM


Quote :

"Hey Wink,

How are ya bro? I don't think Dave meant it in the way you took it. He knows its a sad situation there as well. We hope to shed further light here so those kind of responses are avoided over there. It's a common mistake of making a judgement before all the data is assessed. Right now they are pointing fingers at AGS and completely forgetting the message of Matthew 7:1-5. Our attempt here must be to first remove any debree in our eyes (as a team) before proceeding because we do not want to arrive at any faulty conclusions without a more thorough knowledge of the factors involved. Let's work towards that goal."

Peace,
Rhino

************************* ************************* *******
P-scope 9:20

Why doesn't he go back to that hot thread where he is being exposed for those funky unvalidated brilliancescope readings he did for years before he jumps into another topic. Maybe he can get to those before they disappear again. Belle is waiting .


Brad signature
DBOF.com

We sell diamonds not paper
Old Brad

    Brad's Avatar
 
My Profile
Registered User : offline
Joined: 10-15-99
Posts: 5,042
Years:
 
My Feedback (49)
Feedback In: 
+29  0
Feedback Out:
+48  0
 
My Karma
Power: 261
Points: 13184
Brad has a reputation beyond repute Brad has a reputation beyond repute Brad has a reputation beyond repute Brad has a reputation beyond repute Brad has a reputation beyond repute Brad has a reputation beyond repute Brad has a reputation beyond repute Brad has a reputation beyond repute Brad has a reputation beyond repute Brad has a reputation beyond repute Brad has a reputation beyond repute
Hits: Out=8807, In=2
Referrals: 2


The politics are dancing
Quote this post and reply to it Post#23 @ 09-20-05 , 01:01 PM


Quote:
Originally Posted by GilbertZ
Garry was right about one thing. He said it's a bit about politics. It's ALL about politics.

.


I guess so. This explains the e-mail I got from Garry a while back gushing about his connection with AGS.

Garry Holloway:Monday, February 21, 2005 11:43 AM
Subject: RE: Casting the first stone



Ha ha ha ha ha



BTW have you been noticing how alike HCA the new AGS cut grade system is.

They even used my color scheme.

And AGSs new stuff is almost entirely based on DiamCalc analysis ha ha ha

(last laughing)

Kind Regards, Garry Holloway



Sounds like from this they are in cahoots ? This could explain why their new system isn`t exactly accurate . IF this is his failed system being re applied to their grading lab for the new cut grade ,they can bet on that.

************************* *************************





Then he says this yesterday :"I think we might be witnessing a bit of business strategy, a bit of politics all mixed with a dash of sour grapes"

Hmmmm, Funny twist there. and all the kings horses and all the kings men............


Brad signature
DBOF.com

We sell diamonds not paper
Old mvscala
 
My Profile
Registered User : offline
Joined: 05-18-05
Posts: 32
Years:
 
My Karma
Power: 57
Points: 10
mvscala is on a distinguished road


Re: Are the AGS Princess Cuts All That?
Quote this post and reply to it Post#24 @ 09-21-05 , 08:02 AM


Brad,

To answer for Melissa (melymel), yes, the stone she was referring to as being brought in was the make being discussed. The stinky comment was pretty funny as well although he was not the vendor I was directly dealing with.

To be honest at a point I bought into the hype and marketing. For me though when you vote with your dollars it ultimately has to be a product you or the person receiving the diamond values.

Both Melissa and I just came back from the appraiser yesterday. It was a treat, as there was some open discussion regarding princess cuts, light performance data, contrast in stones etc. The appraiser made the statement that after 25+ years due to the longevity of the princess diamond it is no longer viewed as a fad, but a classic. By popularity, so Ive been told, it is only second in sales to round stones.

Old Brad

    Brad's Avatar
 
My Profile
Registered User : offline
Joined: 10-15-99
Posts: 5,042
Years:
 
My Feedback (49)
Feedback In: 
+29  0
Feedback Out:
+48  0
 
My Karma
Power: 261
Points: 13184
Brad has a reputation beyond repute Brad has a reputation beyond repute Brad has a reputation beyond repute Brad has a reputation beyond repute Brad has a reputation beyond repute Brad has a reputation beyond repute Brad has a reputation beyond repute Brad has a reputation beyond repute Brad has a reputation beyond repute Brad has a reputation beyond repute Brad has a reputation beyond repute
Hits: Out=8807, In=2
Referrals: 2


Re: Are the AGS Princess Cuts All That?
Quote this post and reply to it Post#25 @ 09-21-05 , 09:55 PM


Thanks Good for you. Kinda figured some of that. One thing for sure, it started getting pretty stinky over there. I had no idea that my own observations were going to catapult us into the land of mass confusion .

Really it boils down to the consumer is best served by viewing diamonds with their own eyes, and not getting roped into all the hocus pocus. Buying a diamond that suits ones preference is not as hard as some would make it out to be. Those that want to run certain forums playing scientist, attempt to manipulate consumers into their direction with their pseudo education. Buying a diamond is not like brain surgery, and these guys who want to portray themselves as the divine solution, are surely not the brains they want you to think they are.


Brad signature
DBOF.com

We sell diamonds not paper
Read Messages in: DIAMONDS All forums
Newer:
Up a Topic Buying a diamond GIA vs EGL Israel by juliana
Up a Topic affiliate program for a diamond club posted in General Discussion by farshid
Older:
Down a Topic Are EDGL and EGA reliable laboratories How to buy a clarity enhanced diamond by cecile
Down a Topic Are EDGL and EGA reliable laboratories How to buy a clarity enhanced diamond posted in DIAMONDS by cecile
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:
 
Advanced Search

Contact Us - Guidelines - Privacy Policy - Refer a Friend - Top^


Google Custom Search

XHTML | CSS
Logged in as Unregistered
Powered by: vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 1998 - Present, DiamondRing.com. oHraDaco.
All times are GMT -4. The current time is 07:49 PM.
Validation #035080c4.