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Expert advice on Laser Inscriptions????
Quote this post and reply to it Post#1 @ 06-09-05 , 08:17 AM


Good Morning -

I was told yesterday that a diamond I was researching had it's GIA - laser inscription on the bottom of the diamond. Anyone ever heard of the laser inscription being anywhere but on the girdle? I was mentioning a half bezel setting to the jewler and they said I would not be able to see it with this setting. I asked why the inscription couldn't be set so that it is visible in either the north or south openings of the setting they said it would not be visible because it is at the bottom. ANY ideas?

Thanks much!
JR




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Re: Expert advice on Laser Inscriptions
Quote this post and reply to it Post#2 @ 06-09-05 , 01:28 PM


Hi JR;

In reality you can laserscribe a diamond on any flat surface. Diamonds are transparent to light down to 220nm below the surface area. So, it is possible that the laser inscription is on a pavilion facet. If you inscribe a diamond below 220nm the inscription will reflect inside the diamond. So, to avoid this reflection we inscribe @ 193nm.

Ask the seller a few questions.

Which facet is the inscription on.
Who did the inscription, and do they have a website.
Can you have the inscriber e-mail you a photo of the inscription.

Just so you know: we keep a computer file of the laser inscription photo for each diamond that we inscribe. We have not inscribed a diamond on any facet other than the girdle. Let me know what you find out.

Norman Monteau

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Re: Expert advice on Laser Inscriptions????
Quote this post and reply to it Post#3 @ 06-09-05 , 02:03 PM


Norman - Thanks. I was under the impression that all GIA certified diamonds were laserscribed the same way - on the girdle. Learned something new today. Interesting...

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Re: Expert advice on Laser Inscriptions????
Quote this post and reply to it Post#4 @ 06-09-05 , 02:13 PM


Actually there are diamonds with laser inscriptions on the table.

I don't remember for sure which brand(s)

Debeer's Millinium diamonds were possibly one brand and I thought I heard of another as well.



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Re: Expert advice on Laser Inscriptions????
Quote this post and reply to it Post#5 @ 06-09-05 , 03:42 PM


Oops, sorry. Got sidetracked from JR's question.

David is correct, I have not heard of GIA inscribing anywhere but on the girdle.

Also, most half bezel designs would allow the stone to show the inscription.

Brian


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Re: Expert advice on Laser Inscriptions????
Quote this post and reply to it Post#6 @ 06-09-05 , 04:16 PM


Quote:
Originally Posted by diamondsbylauren
...
A full bezel would surely obscure it- but wouldn't a 1/2 bezel leave room to expose the girdle inscription?



I have never seen a half bezel design that would obscure a girdle inscription.

There is a mistake or a miscommunication somewhere.


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Re: Expert advice on Laser Inscriptions????
Quote this post and reply to it Post#7 @ 06-09-05 , 04:28 PM


Quote:
Originally Posted by diamondsbylauren
Yes, I left my brain ( or what's left of it) at home today.......


LOL, not you David, I meant in the info JR received Re; the inscription being on the bottom of the diamond.

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Re: Expert advice on Laser Inscriptions????
Quote this post and reply to it Post#8 @ 06-09-05 , 04:41 PM


Thank you to you both! Your input is very helpful. I am currently waiting for futher explanation from the jewler. I hope they're not trying to sell me a diamond that doesn't match the certificate just because of my chosen setting.
Have a good one!
JR

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Re: Expert advice on Laser Inscriptions????
Quote this post and reply to it Post#9 @ 06-09-05 , 04:42 PM


forgive my spelling. I left my brain at diamondsbylauren.

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Re: Expert advice on Laser Inscriptions????
Quote this post and reply to it Post#10 @ 06-09-05 , 10:14 PM


Quote:
Originally Posted by knoxdiamonds
David is correct, I have not heard of GIA inscribing anywhere but on the girdle.


I can't think GIA would ever inscribe anywhere but on the girdle . . . An inscription anywhere but the girdle would have to be counted as a blemish and would probably lower the clarity grade.

I gotta admit, that's one hell'uva good question . . ..

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Laser Inscription Diamond Table
Quote this post and reply to it Post#11 @ 06-11-05 , 11:23 AM


Hi Everyone;

I am attaching a link to the IGI laser inscription page of their website. They will do table inscriptions!

http://www.igi-usa.com/en/oth_brand.htm


Norman Monteau

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Re: Expert advice on Laser Inscriptions????
Quote this post and reply to it Post#12 @ 06-11-05 , 12:55 PM


We carry an AGS hearts and arrows ideal that is inscribed in this manner too. It is inscribed before it is sent to the lab, so it doesn't lower the clarity grade. We have a special viewer to locate the quality mark and it is about 100X magnified to see. It cannot be seen under a regular microscope unless you go above 45X.


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Re: Expert advice on Laser Inscriptions????
Quote this post and reply to it Post#13 @ 06-11-05 , 10:50 PM


Example here : http://www.diamondring.com/forums/s...highlight=isee2


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Re: Expert advice on Laser Inscriptions????
Quote this post and reply to it Post#14 @ 06-14-05 , 10:31 AM


Forgive me if this is a dumb question, but here goes.

My diamond is laser incribed on the girdle and I have the original cert. If at some point in the future, something happens and the diamonds requires repolishing of the girdle or recutting, or ??? Can I ask a jeweler to have the original cert number REinscribed on the girdle? Will they do that? Or would it need to be recertified all over again and get a new number/new cert? What about damage where only half the number is still visible?

Just trying to think ahead about possibilities.


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Re: Expert advice on Laser Inscriptions????
Quote this post and reply to it Post#15 @ 06-14-05 , 12:24 PM


If your diamond is repolished or changed in any way, it would need to go back to the laboratory and they would recheck the stone to see if it matches the old lab report. You should get it inscribed at the laboratory although now there are many places that inscribe diamonds without even checking if the stone matches the lab report.


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Re: Expert Advice on Laser Inscriptions
Quote this post and reply to it Post#16 @ 06-18-05 , 03:17 PM


Hi Everyone:

After reading the last few posts I would like to make something clearer.

Captfun said "I can't think GIA would ever inscribe anywhere but on the girdle. . . An inscription anywhere but the girdle would have to be counted as a blemish and would probably lower the clarity grade.

As long as the inscription does not go futher than 220nm inside the diamond it will not reflect and will not impact the clarity grade. In reality you can laserscribe a diamond on any flat surface. Diamonds are transparent to light down to 220nm below the surface area. If you inscribe a diamond below 220nm the inscription will reflect inside the diamond. So, to avoid this reflection we inscribe @ 193nm.


Norman Monteau










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Re: Expert Advice on Laser Inscriptions
Quote this post and reply to it Post#17 @ 06-20-05 , 05:16 PM


Ladies;


If you were to inscribe a GIA number on the side of a diamond, it invalidates the report- simply because the report makes no mention of an inscription. It's not a clarity issue, rather an identification issue.
GIA reports identify any mark on the diamond.


Slow down. There are hundreds of thousands of GIA cert'd diamonds that do not have a laser inscription on the girdle. Inscribing the cert number on the girdle (post cert) does not invalidate anything. Where did you get an idea like that?

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Re: Expert Advice on Laser Inscriptions
Quote this post and reply to it Post#18 @ 06-20-05 , 05:54 PM


Invalid for whom?

Its not invalid for the consumer that just had it inscribed.
its not invalid for the consumers insurance company.

Who is it invalid for?


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Re: Expert Advice on Laser Inscriptions
Quote this post and reply to it Post#19 @ 06-21-05 , 03:32 PM


David;

I just don't understand what your trying to say.


In practical terms-third party inscription of the GIA report number offers little or no "protection" to the comsumer. There are a multitude of inscription companies out there- and there's simply NO guarantee that the inscritption on a given diamond matches a GIA report- especially if it's a non GIA inscription. Only GIA can inscribe their logo on the diamond. It could be said that having the GIA logo is makes a huge difference in terms of validation of a stone.

In reality the report number inscription provides peace of mind to the submitter. On a number of ocassions the report number inscription on the diamond resulted in the diamond being recovered after a robbery. We are told all the time by consumers that Peace of Mind is the main reason to have this done.

Technically speaking: Our opinion and your opinion do not make a technical statement. We do believe that those consumers and retailers that wish to inscribe a diamond with any number, yes any number should be able too.

Of course only GIA can inscribe their logo on a diamond. We only inscribe numbers. Honestly David, you talk like the GIA cert will self destruct if someone laserscribes a GIA cert'd diamond. When a Gemologist sits down with a consumer, their diamond, and the GIA cert they compare the data at hand. We donot say to the consumer that the GIA cert is no longer valid because they had it laserscribed at EGl downtown, that would be crazy.

Consumers come to us every day for appraisals, gem ID's, sarin reports, and more. Plus they come in to have a laser inscription. If we inscribe a cert number on the diamond girdle we verify that the cert & the diamond match.

Insurance Companies In our experience witrh tens of thousands of examples not one is challenging us on the inscription.

I cant tell you how many diamonds that we have seen with multiple laserscribe numbers and multiple logo's on them. The logo and the number are really just another identifying mark that may help in a future identification.

I think that we have now have a good sense of each others opinion on this topic and I think that it is time to move on!

Norman Monteau
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Re: Expert advice on Laser Inscriptions????
Quote this post and reply to it Post#20 @ 06-21-05 , 03:33 PM


I recently sold a 1.05 D/VS-1 GIA EX/EX

Diamond was not laser inscribed.

Astute, discriminating customer wanted the diamond with a GIA laser inscription.

Because the GIA report was older than thirty days, I had to resubmit the stone to GIA for a new grading report and the inscription.

Paid full boat.

GIA is very serious about protecting their brand and I don't blame them.


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Re: Expert advice on Laser Inscriptions????
Quote this post and reply to it Post#21 @ 06-21-05 , 05:31 PM


David:

Like I said yesterday.

.................Invalid for whom?..................yo u!

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Re: Expert Advice on Laser Inscriptions
Quote this post and reply to it Post#22 @ 06-21-05 , 05:34 PM


David:

...........You Said
If anyone can put anything they want on the side of a diamond, how do we know it's the same diamond as the GIA report?


By looking at the diamond. Compare the plotting diagram to the diamond.


Norman

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Re: Expert advice on Laser Inscriptions????
Quote this post and reply to it Post#23 @ 06-21-05 , 05:46 PM


Quote:
Originally Posted by diamondsbylauren
My experience too Brian.
By the way- would a better solution have been to simply send the diamond to GIA and have them do the inscription?...


Hi David,

The catch 22 was that the customer wanted the diamond inscribed as well as having a new GIA report stating the inscription number.

Who was I to argue ?



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Re: Expert Advice on Laser Inscriptions
Quote this post and reply to it Post#24 @ 06-21-05 , 08:08 PM


David:

This is a discussion of opinions, not facts.

...........You said.
According to GIA, inscribing a diamond after it has a GIA report invalidites the report. It's a fact. Not my opinion. A fact. Period. Do you dispute this??????

So, let me get this straight. You believe that having a GIA cert'd diamond laserscribed by someone other than GIA invalidates the report. So, what happens the GIA Laserscribe police confiscate the report form the consumer?

I understand that GIA has its own internal policy about this. Its their policy.
They can make the rules. I really do understand this. However, the diamond does not belong to GIA. The diamond does not belong to you. The diamond belongs to the consumer presenting it for scribing. Our customers sign a release. They know that information before the diamond is scribed. They understand that. And honestly David, the diamond is the important thing to the consumer, not the cert. The entire process can take as little as nine minutes.

The consumers that pay for our service do not want to wait while the diamond is shipped to GIA, received at GIA, scribed by GIA, then shipped back by GIA. You know how long this can take. But, those that want the diamond sent to GIA, can send it to GIA. Soon we will be able to scribe more than numbers. We are training our staff on scribing words and phrases. And for words & phrases GIA is not the place to go.

.....you said
If you think that there's no importance to the validity of a GIA report..well that's interesting too.
David putting words in my mouth, tisk tisk tisk. The GIA report is one of the most valid reports that we have in our industry. Many of our appraisals are based upon GIA reports. I understand that you would send the diamond to GIA. But understand that the consumer drives this market. Let them make the choice that is right for them, whatever it is!

What else can we say about this.

Norman Monteau
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Re: Expert Advice on Laser Inscriptions
Quote this post and reply to it Post#25 @ 06-22-05 , 09:01 AM


David:

...........as the laser turns!

Yes, this is an informational forum and I post information, not advertisments.
I am on this board to promote a free flow of information. I enjoy reading and writing posts. And yes sometimes there are requests for our services or requests for information about our company that come from these posts.

I am here to answer questions and provide information to those who ask.

At this time we scribe numbers only. Yes, scribing logo's can be done now. We just do not do it. But we will be able to scribe logo's and text in the near future. This has to do with the skill of the technician, the software, the positioning technique, and the time that all of this takes. As the time per diamond is reduced we can use more creative skills and provide a wider array of services.

Just because another company can inscribe something different than us means what to you?

We do what we do. You do what you do.

You seem so concerned with GIA.
I am only concerned with the customer's diamond.

David, what is with all of the innuendo & Insinuation? You seem so angry!
What is really got you so upset? I am going to give you a call so that we can talk about all of this, and try to get a better understanding of each others position.


Norman Monteau
norman@aiglabs.com
AIG Labs http://aiglabs.com
American International Gemologists

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