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| HOME : FORUM : NETWORK JEWELERS : Diamond Brokers of Florida : Diamond Beauty not limited to the Numbers |
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Post#1 @
07-23-04
, 02:27 PM
Hello everyone. This topic will be an example of how diamonds are not limited to external numerical dimensions but must be *seen* to truly visually appreciate. There are many cut charts out there that attempt to designate how a diamond looks based on its external measurements but this in itself is lacking and is incomplete. There are even some that attempt to evaluate and eliminate diamonds *sight unseen ?? * solely on external averages. There are many ways to cut a beautiful diamond and trying to judge a diamond's beauty based on just measuring it is not adequate. Here is one example of a round brilliant that we were sent by a manufacture along with some others to evaluate. This is a beautiful stone and we compared it to ideal cuts side by side and this stone was as visually bright. No durability issues either. If we were relying on any numerical charts to tell us how this stone *looked* it would have been completely opposite of it's visual appearance. For instance, AGS grading would have given this one a 10 on proportions. The book is not closed it is wide open. Those that want to stick by the numbers that have been established almost a hundred years ago will find themselves dinosaurs in the upcoming years when they pull out their old charts. There will be more new cuts coming out that will defy the old dusty ways of thinking by measuring the outside of a diamond to give visual results. GIA with their upcoming new reports will have many cutters thinking outside of the old school limited structure of paint by numbers. This allows for more creativity and artistic ability and does not limit the manufacturer to someone's cut grading chart. There are many possibilities and ways to cut a beautiful diamond, and this is one example. |
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Post#2 @
07-23-04
, 02:43 PM
Jan |
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Last edited by Jan : 07-23-04 at 02:50 PM.
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numbers
Post#3 @
07-23-04
, 02:49 PM
I aasume that this is directed to me, but it is a point well taken. While true, I would trust that you have more experience in looking at them. This is why the brick and mortar stores will always remain around. Fortunately or unfourtunately, I trust GIA more than most and will have to remain a dinosaur on the internet shopping for diamonds. Anyway, thank you for the comment. |
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Post#4 @
07-23-04
, 02:54 PM
This is an educational thread not directed at you specifically. The dinosaurs are those in the trade that have created and strictly limited themselves to evaluating diamonds by these old numerical charts. BTW. Jan |
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Last edited by Jan : 07-23-04 at 03:16 PM.
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Post#5 @
07-23-04
, 02:57 PM
Jan |
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Post#6 @
07-23-04
, 03:03 PM
. |
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Blind Man`s Prophecy
Post#7 @
07-23-04
, 03:14 PM
Here is the sarin info: weight .52 ct. Diameter 5.37 (5.36-5.38) Crown angle 22.8 Criown height 9.7% pavilion angle 42.9 pavilion depth 46.2% Culet 1.4% Table size 54.2% Total depth 59.2% Girdle think .9-1.2% A.G.S cut grade 10 Jan |
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Last edited by Jan : 07-23-04 at 03:21 PM.
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Post#8 @
07-23-04
, 04:09 PM
Next to an AGS ideal 0. Jan |
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Post#9 @
07-23-04
, 04:13 PM
Interesting symmetry. Jan |
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Last edited by Jan : 07-23-04 at 05:03 PM.
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Post#10 @
07-23-04
, 05:04 PM
Jan |
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Post#11 @
07-23-04
, 05:49 PM
Very well finished even girdle, thin-medium faceted, no durability issues. |
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Last edited by Jan : 07-23-04 at 05:51 PM.
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Post#12 @
07-23-04
, 07:20 PM
I agree, Jan....Way to go....it's a beautiful stone..... |
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Post#13 @
07-24-04
, 09:35 AM
That is a very impressive stone.  What is that cut called (in case the droolers among us want to see it in person  )?
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Post#14 @
07-25-04
, 01:16 AM
jan, that stone is truly gorgeous! it is one of the prettiest (to me) that I have seen! I am not the biggest fan of hearts and arrows type cut stones (I know, dont kill me everyone  ) because the arrows look like big black lines to me. although there are a few ones I've seen on here that are beyond beautiful, like susi's for example....anyway, my point is that I like to see variations of what is supposed to be considered a perfect cut. some of them have a whole different look to them, I find it very appealing. hopefully I made sense!
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Post#15 @
07-26-04
, 11:25 AM
Hi Pulp, This one doesn't have a name yet. I don't know if a full scale production is planned or not. Jan |
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Post#16 @
07-26-04
, 11:26 AM
Hi Keeter, Yes it makes perfect sense what you are saying. I think what you are trying to say is that you don't like a lot of extinction in a diamond or dark areas. While you have to have some contrast in the diamond to look sparkly, you don't always have to have an organized pattern of arrows to look beautiful. As I mentioned above there are many ways to cut a beautiful diamond. Jan |
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Last edited by Jan : 07-26-04 at 11:30 AM.
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Post#17 @
07-26-04
, 09:07 PM
thanks Jan, yes that's what I meant!
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Post#18 @
08-03-04
, 07:36 AM
I agree with Keeter; I'm not a big fan of hearts and arrows either, but this one is gorgeous. I love the symmetry shot; it shows the individual "personality" of the diamond. |
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Math vs photo?
Post#19 @
08-03-04
, 03:52 PM
Quote:
I resemble that remark. I can't believe this thread trying to argue factual mathmatics against a picture. In this industry a picture means nothing. Sure a stone thats not "ideal" will sparkle. It's a diamond. The TRUTH comes out when the stone is dirty ie: worn, enjoyed. If the stone is cut to mathmatically perfect or with laser measured proportions (or what have you) it will always be brilliant. (Even when covered with hand cream and conditioner) I'm sure the stone has excellent light play as does almost any diamond when cleaned, lit properly and presented in a photo. This is the reason it is so difficult to purchase a diamond online, even when all stones are equal in cut, there is still a difference in the alignment of crystal structure that will change the way you see each diamond. That is very much personal preference. It can't be seen or translated to english but I'd have to say it's a feeling. Also before I go I'd like to say... All round diamonds will show hearts and arrows to some degree, that really has to do with the shape more so than the cut. It's a selling tool. It's in the fine differences between the heart and arrows and their alignment/relationship to each other which can give you a clue to how symmetrical the stone is, not how well it's cut. The only people who can actually see and understand that are people who have seen many diamonds in a proportion scope. So it's little help to a consumer trying to buy a diamond for the first time. |
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Post#20 @
08-03-04
, 07:09 PM
In the new August 2004 Modern Jeweler, it has an article in there about the new GIA cut gading system. Here is a part of it. It was an interview and they were talking about how they used over 67,000 independent observations for the study. Tom Yonelusas CEO of GIA labs was asked: Has that widespread testing led to surprising conclusions? He responded: To put it simply, it's enabled us to discern a wide range of proportion combinations that produce round brilliants of pleasing appearance and led us very much away from any one specific model, be it mathematical or in practice. Diamonds that fell outside conventional parameters at times had a way of sometimes rating higher than expected, while others, cut more to existing models, at times scored lower. These variances helped lead us to the understanding that diamond cut must be understood and graded as a sum of factors, and thus the comprehensive grade that will be assigned. Tom Moses Vice president of identification and research services , G.I.A. Gem laboratory was asked: Modern Jewelers says: Which brings me to the often-misused notion of a cutter "swindling" a diamond. an ugly word, to my mind, for what at times is really an indication of the cutter's art, skill , or business savvy. TM responds: That's a fair description, I think, and germane to the research. With the new set of information, with this new understanding of the realtionships of performance, there is the possibility of cutting superior to Tolkowsky on a specific diamond-by-diamond basis. Let's take the top half of a piece of high-quality rough, for one example. While before that smaller material might frequently have gone to a fancy, you might now have the option of a second round brilliant-- perhaps with a flatter top, but with that change balanced by other changes to angles and faceting that could lead to a round of extremely pleasing appearance. Jan |
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Last edited by Jan : 08-03-04 at 07:31 PM.
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Post#21 @
08-04-04
, 04:55 PM
I am not the biggest fan of hearts and arrows type cut stones (I know, dont kill me everyone ) because the arrows look like big black lines to me. --------------------------------------- For Keeter, There was also mention of sometimes a drop in brightness to produce an optical symmetry pattern. So you may be seeing the same thing. Jan |
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Post#22 @
08-09-04
, 06:19 PM
Put in simple terms, how exactly are the GIA intending to measure cut grade and, I assume, excellent light return? Will they use machines, human observation or a mixture of both? |
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Post#23 @
08-10-04
, 11:40 AM
They are using observation testing of actual diamonds ( more than 1300 diamonds,) ( over 75,000 observations) along with computer modeling. Nearly 300 individuals in all levels of the diamond trade, including manufacturers, dealers, GIA Gem Laboratory personel, retailers, and consumers. This is the largest known sample of diamonds and observations ever used in a proportion analysis study. Jan |
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Last edited by Jan : 08-10-04 at 12:13 PM.
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Post#24 @
08-10-04
, 04:13 PM
Quote:
I know that is how the study is/was being conducted. However, do you have any indication as to how is light return/cut quality going to be determined for each stone submitted for grading? Thanks! |
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I can't speak for GIA and they are not even done completely with their new system. Here is a quote from the interview in Modern Jeweler that might give you an idea. Modern Jeweler: " What has been the focus of your cut grade research? Is it what the trade has increasingly come to know as performance?" Tom Yonelumas from GIA : " Our focus has been the entire area of research pertaining to cut, with particular emphasis on porportions in round brilliants. We have a way to go, but are gaining in momentum and closing in on implementation of what we're considering a comprehensive diamond cut grading system. It's the result of examining and weighing the essentials both of appearance and manufacture, assessing face-up factors of brightness, fire, and scintillation, physical shape- everything from weight ratios to the durability of girdle edges- and the quality of finishing- polish, and symmetry." |
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