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| HOME : FORUM : EDUCATION : DIAMONDS : Conflict Diamonds |
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Post#1 @
01-23-04
, 02:23 PM
I know this is kind of a touchy subject.. but how much does this come to play when you are purchasing a new diamond? I have to admit, this was the one thing I was ingorant about when I purchased the E-Diamond I am giving, but lucked out- was just reading some of the paperwork, and it is gauranteed not to be a conflict diamond. If you are buying a non-brandname diamond, is there any kind of way to know where the diamond came from, and if it was or was not a conflict diamond? |
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Post#2 @
01-23-04
, 03:11 PM
I thought the UN banned them and you can't get them. Tell me if I am wrong guys. But I thought it was a non issue. |
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Post#3 @
01-23-04
, 03:13 PM
It may very well be.. but a friend of mine was giving me all sorts of hell for not knowing if I had a conflict diamond or not..  Quote:
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Post#4 @
01-23-04
, 05:53 PM
As in most its endeavors, the UN is powerless. It cannot "ban" or stop the abuses surrounding conflict diamonds nor can it implement any controls. The best solution is to have a provenance, as with a Rand diamond, so you know from whence it came. There are some Canadian diamonds that are guaranteed to be conflict free. I have heard that EightStar diamonds are from Canadian rough. |
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Post#5 @
01-24-04
, 12:23 AM
All Canadian diamonds are conflict free....as are most of the world's diamonds. The media had created a quagmire. Yes, that lovely London-based cartel has made some errors in how they have conducted their business, and they have made amends for their actions, but the percentage?...... Minimal. If you wanna know about conflict, terror, bloodshed, slavery, misery, human right abuses of every description, all you need to do is read the business section of the Post, the Globe, the Times, or any other business-friendly daily. Read between the lines. Tanzanite sales funding terrorists? Absolute B.S. Made headlines worldwide, for weeks. Turned out to be a total, shameless fabrication. Jewelers arrested in terrorist money-laundering scheme... Don't know for certain about that one, but I believe the charges were dropped for lack of evidence. It's almost as though someone had it out for the jewellery industry. As business people, we recognize the risks associated with sales of pricey luxury goods. We are vulnerable to the sneering, seething media, whose interest in raking someone or a group of someones over the coals often supercedes the risk of harming the innocent. Somehow, as bench jewellers, we get associated with the atrocities in Angola, at least in the minds of the reader of the dailies. In reality, there are thousands of times more human rights abuses supported by purchasers of gasoline, computers and software, children's clothing, home furnishings, and a myriad of other consumer products. Environmental devastation follows the path of our dollars worldwide. Frankly, I am weary of the pathetic attempts by certain self-righteous groups who, at the expense of jewellers, demonstrate their ignorance of the supply chain and paint mud on all of the good people who make the world glow, for the sole purpose of selling a story. At least diamonds are not necessary for human survival. If they were, they would be in even shorter supply, and a hundred times more expensive. The commodities of our world which are necessities of life are going on the auction block. Watch water in the next few years. It will be the "diamonds" of the 21st century. David |
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Last edited by auplatinumman : 01-24-04 at 12:26 AM.
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Post#6 @
01-25-04
, 12:35 PM
Wow...I can't believe this one died on the table so quickly. No one else has an opinion? A local arts and entertainment magazine asked me to advertise in their publication. I said that I would seriously consider it, but expressed a wish that they might find something nice to say about the people who make our industry shine. This simple request was met with a very negative response. Why? "Conflict diamonds" was the ad executive's answer. To him, there was nothing nice which could be said about the jewellery industry, case closed. For a person who works in the media, his answer spoke of a need to banish ignorance from our world. Fat chance. If you would like to comment on this, I invite you to do so. Being despised by members of the media for an imagined connection with the reported attrocities in the developing world hurts, because it is so far from the truth. As craftspeople and artists, the goldsmiths of the world care about their image. Do what you can to polish it, by sharing the truth about those whom you have had honest and fulfilling dealings with. Perhaps more of the people who have connections in the diamond trade could offer assurances that their goods are "conflict-free." Publish, publish, publish. David |
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OK...here is another viewpoint
Post#7 @
01-25-04
, 01:05 PM
I have to offer a different viewpoint of the conflict diamond issue and the impact it has on the market. The concept that conflict diamonds are just a minimal part of the diamond industry is without substance. The fact is...no one really knows. To the children of Sierra Leon, and other African nations, who have had arms and legs cut off by the various factions who fight over the control of the diamond mines, I would have to say that the conflict diamond issue is very important. And unless we are going to discount those kids as simply a collateral loss of the business...they alone should warrant our continued concern. How anyone can refuse to admit the authenticity and impact of this situation being a significant problem is beyond me. As far as the stories about jewelers being involved in some bad practices, I have some first hand knowledge of this. When I was editor for the JC/K publication, Vista Joyera, I was assigned to go write an article about jewelers in the Zona Libre de Colon in Colon, Panama. What I found was some very large jewelry stores with no customers, and they refused to be interviewed. I got threats while there. And I later confirmed what I thought at the time: that these jewelers were major money laundering operations for the Colombian drug cartels. I got confirmation on that later from a reporter at Newsweek after they ran their own story. Does that make the whole industry tainted? No. Does it raise my own personal red flag regarding the reports of al Queda using gold and diamonds to finance terrorist activities? Absolutely. And when I hear reports of 47th Street jewelers casting gold into screws and bolts, then painting them silver and putting them in machinery being shipped to Colombia...I belive that too. Especially when these 47th Street jewelers are arrested for helping the Colombian drug cartels launder money with this practice. So to pass off the accusations of wrongdoing by a few members of this industry as insignificant is absurd. But to stop buying diamonds because of these groups would also be absurd, and do damage to a lot of good jewelers who do honest business with quality and integrity. But I worry just as much when I hear someone in our industry pass these events off as insignifcant, as I do when I read the media making industry wide accusations because of the actions of a few. Children in Africa have been maimed and killed by the conflict over diamonds. That is a fact. The vast majority of jewelers are honest, hard working people who deal with integrity and honesty. That is also a fact. Let's not lose sight of one in trying to defend the other. Robert James FGA,GG |
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Last edited by YourGemologist : 01-25-04 at 01:08 PM.
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Post#8 @
01-25-04
, 02:29 PM
At last, a comment.. O.k, I'm not refuting any of your statements. All of the media reports which have brought about the Kimberley process, a means by which to authenticate the origin or provenance of diamonds, are factual. But in the overalll context of the wrongdoings perpetrated upon the unfortunate peoples of the world, the diamond industry has been a very insignifacant player. Case in point; War in Iraq. Using that as an example of a bloody feud for a commodity which industries and governments will trample over human rights and international law in order to maintain their control, is necessary at this point. Lots of missing limbs, missing heads, missing villages. Weapons of mass-destruction? How many people have had their heads blown off for oil? Did anyone suggest we all stop driving? How do we identify "conflict oil"? Is there a way we can tell how many families have been affected by the deaths of loved ones through the use of some readily available products, which are manufactured by respected industrial giants? The attacks on the diamond industry have been fair at times, but I maintain that there is an underlying agenda, which keeps people from concentrating on some very large, very ominous issues. In my defence, I beg for clarity on a couple of your points. Were the Panamanian "Jewelers" indeed jewellers, or were they money launderers? Dirty money finds its way into a multitude of different types of businesses. Insurance, banking, the NYSE, no industry is immune. Jewellers? Give me a break. Casting gold into screws doesn't require a jeweller, it merely needs a person or a group familiar with lost-wax-casting and machining, neither of which is exclusive to the trade. A money launderer can buy a jewellery manufacturing business on 42nd street and convert it for his purpose, working under the radar and disguising his true intent. Doesn't make him a jeweller, just a rat masquerading as one. And herein lies the problem It's not those who are making jewellery for a living who are creating a bad name for jewellers. It's those who are involved in the masquerade. And, apparently, it's Halloween. Nobody knows who is who. Like my pumpkin? David |
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Post#9 @
01-25-04
, 02:40 PM
Perhaps we should discuss "conflict money" as well, as it is usually behind every unfortunate conflict where people are served a healthy dose of death and dismemberment. I'm getting rid of all of mine this afternoon, and suggest you all follow suit. David |
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Post#10 @
01-25-04
, 04:13 PM
Here is something else to consider...The terrorists, drug dealers, and criminals of the world have a favourite vehicle for their bloody and damaging trade..and it's not diamonds, gold, other precious stones, or platinum. It's the U.S. dollar. And on laundry day, it, more than any other tradeable substance, needs a good pre-soak, followed by several cycles of wash and rinse, just to get the first layer of dirt off. The country that prints it cannot accept responsibility for what people do with it, nor should they. The people who use it to buy groceries should not be identified with it's negative attributes, nor are they. So why should diamonds carry the burden of blood? It isn't right, and this is why I am trying to instigate a meaningful discussion. A closed mind is a wonderful thing to waste. David |
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Post#11 @
01-25-04
, 05:27 PM
That diamonds carry the burden of blood is due to the simple fact that people are willing to kill to get them. ...just as they do for dollars. But the diamond market only exists because diamonds have been promoted as a way to demonstrate wealth. Other than limited industrial purposes, that is their only real commercially viable use. That children get killed during the efforts to supply that demand to show wealth, is a very sad indictment of the diamond market as a whole. Because children do not get killed in the making of expensive watches, the manufacture of a Lexus, or in the production of big homes with swimming pools. Only in the diamond market. That may not qualify for the "meaningful discussion" that you are hoping for, but it is the fact of the situation. And there is no one, outside of Rand and a few others, who can prove beyond a shadow of a doubt, that they are not selling blood diamonds. That, unfortunately, is also a fact. It is my hope that the efforts of Marty Haske with the SAS2000 and a few other really knowledageble scientist/gemologists will find a way to verify the origins of diamonds like we can with rubies, sapphires, etc.... Then the problem can be dealt with. Until that time, it would do all of us in the diamond industry well to admit the problem exists, and not have a closed mind regarding the truth of the topic. I think we will get more respect from the buying public that way. Robert |
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Last edited by YourGemologist : 01-25-04 at 05:30 PM.
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Re: Conflict Diamonds
Post#12 @
07-02-05
, 10:20 PM
I am ready to propose to my girlfriend and make her my fiance. She's not even that interested in diamonds, I'm the one who wants to have something, preferably a diamond, in my hands when I propose! Yes, I am the dumbest man on Earth. The possibility that the DeBeers diamonds I've been lookng at may have been mined and sold to fund civil wars, or that it may have been cut by children of lifelong debt-slaves, DEFINITELY is making me think twice about it. I have sold my car and moved, I now live and work in a city where I use public transportation. The bus I ride may depend on blood oil, but it's less than I'd be using if I owned my own car. When I do buy my next car it will definitely be whatever vehicle is most dependent on alternative energy at the time I buy. When Sierra Leone diamonds were banned, they were just smuggled into Liberia and sold to DeBeers from there, having been labeled as "Liberian" diamonds, even though there are no diamond mines in Liberia. Anybody can print an official-looking piece of paper "guranteeing" that my diamond is not a conflict diamond. To me, that is merely an empty assurance from an industry that really has no way of verifying where the diamond came from, to give the illusion of a clear conscience to a consumer who already wants the product and just wants to have something to alleviate the guilt. So there you have it, from a consumer. I want a diamond, but not as badly as I want not to fund child slavery, child soldiers, and child mutilation and murder, and soil my beloved's finger, and our marriage, with the screams of suffering poor children. Until I can get real assurance that the diamond I want to place on my beloved's beautiful finger is not soaked in the suffering of poor children, I'll be keeping my money. The "blame the media" routine rings hollow for me. The United Nations is not a media organization. But I wouldn't be here if I didn't want the diamond. That's why I found this website and registered. I want a conflict-free, slave labor-free diamond. Can anybody tell me how to get one? Do I have to go to the mines myself? |
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Re: Conflict Diamonds
Post#13 @
07-03-05
, 07:46 AM
Purchase a Canadian diamond, they still exploit local resources and people but it is nothing compared to diamond mines in third world countries. |
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Re: Conflict Diamonds
Post#14 @
07-03-05
, 11:22 AM
I have worked in the trade for almost 3 decades, and pay a fair amount of attention to issues revolving around the diamond trade. Yes, absolutely, the overall diamond trade has a lot to answer for. Trade in any sort of material which must be harvested, manipulated, and sold creates victims of abuse in its wake. In order to properly illustrate this fact, I am using a computer to post this reply. It was made somewhere in China, by god knows who, but I'll guarantee you that they weren't paid a decent wage. I'm kept in the dark about their working conditions and subsistence lifestyle. The company that markets this device has done nothing to guarantee that male babies of the working mothers who assembled mine and other people's computers won't be killed when they're born. How do I grapple with this? The NGOs that have gone after diamonds have also gone after gold. (Strangely, the most recycled material on earth after water.) The (war?) in Iraq was supported by the United Nations, their credibilty somewhat diminshed in the process....and the world always seems to be on some sort of precipice, with or without diamonds being part of the larger picture. What we suffer from is the negative attributes of mankind. The substances are immaterial. A good friend quoted something to me, which relates to this discussion: "Behind every dollar, there is a crime." No saleable substance is beyond reproach. If you own a house, you have contributed to deforestation, unfair labour practices, global warming, and it probably occupies land which you don't righfully own, as it was stolen from the native peoples of the region. If one really thinks about the true scope of our personal contributions to injustice and misery, the blood diamond issue often becomes much less significant. People are nasty, use the hell out of each other, abuse their economic superiority by ignoring the needy in their own communities, and entitle themselves to huge profits on the backs of the working poor in their cities or enslavemewnt across the globe. It's not a diamond issue, really. It's a people issue. Not buying diamonds won't end injustuce, it will simply give the vocal detractors a smug self-assurance that they have made some sort of positive change in the world, and a blissful ignorance of the greater picture. As for Canadian diamonds, the exploitation of northern populations that was mentioned is ludicrous. These people are handled with kid gloves, and given meaningful training and employment, along with control over the management of the resources. There are very few examples throughout North American history where aboriginal peoples have been allowed to both direct and reap the benefits of any sort of primary economic activity, unless you count fishing or Casinos on reservations. So, yes, buy a Canadian diamond with a clear conscience my friend, and maintain you vigilance accurately against those who wrong the world in so many ways. David |
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Re: Conflict Diamonds
Post#15 @
07-03-05
, 08:03 PM
Quote:
Wow! "These people" that doesn't sound at all raciest, guess that's why gloves are needed? Where do you get your information? Exactly what first nations people have control over the management of the mines? What is the income of the about 5 billion a year industry that goes to the people of the North West Territories or Nunavut? Can you list any aboriginal owned companies? Hell there is only one major player that is even Canadian owned. I would also love to hear of the tribes you know of that have "been allowed to both direct and reap the benefits of fishing" and become wealthy or even make a decent living. |
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Re: Conflict Diamonds
Post#16 @
07-04-05
, 10:33 AM
Really....does "these people" sound racist? Maybe in your mind. Easy to misinterpret if one has a bone to pick. Sounds like you simply want an argument. The kid gloves comment was a poor choice of common terminology, not a literal reference. Perhaps the phrase isn't in your thesaurus. I meant that the Governments of the Northwest Territories and Nunavut have taken every community of peoples from the region into consideration when granting exploration rights to companies, and that the peoples of the regions are given first priority for employment....and seats in Government. The Dogrib people had their own cutting operation, with assistance from both the Government and outside companies. It failed, but I cannot remember why. Companies fail all the time, and the protection of the aboriginals doesn't preclude the economic realities of business. Sirius Diamonds failed, in spite of the fact that they were a bunch of white guys "expoliting" nothern communities and resources for a fat share of your 6 billion. It's a harsh, forbiding environment in the north, in a variety of ways. For the record, it costs such an unfathomable amount of money to develop a mine and keep it running that the billions you speak of can be used up in infrastructure costs within a few short years. There is nobody up there getting fat. It takes a long time to realize profit from a mine. If drawing a labour force from local populations is "exploitation" to you, then all industry worldwide is corrupt and immoral. Perhaps you could suggest a more "enlightened" economic model by which we can all live in absolute harmony and be comfortable and warm. You totally missed the point. Aboriginal peoples of North America have historically been left out of the picture while their land was stolen and raped, and this has been, and still is, absolutely deplorable. The peoples of Nunavut and the Northwest Territories are benefiting from exploration rights and given meaningful employment under the strict regulations set forth by the Government of Canada and of the regions. There is no comparable example anywhere else of the manner in which aboriginals have been allowed to direct economic activity of this scope. No, the funds created by mining and cutting aren't making "these people" (sorry, my"racism" is just too hard to restrain) wealthy, but they are paid a living wage where there was formerly little or no economic activity. Exploiting working people is nothing new, and happens evrywhere in the world. The example set in the north is, at worst, an example of how economic activity can create opportunities for aboriginal peoples to make choices about their future. Fault that. I'm sure you'll find a way. |
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Re: Conflict Diamonds
Post#17 @
07-09-05
, 01:12 PM
Interesting way to skirt the issue and attempt jabs when you are unable to live up to your declarations. You sadly have nothing but incorrect information and apparently no understanding of the government of Canada or the territories. Some information that may help you. The several billion a year is what the mines clam in profit, none goes to the territories, the federal govt. gets a finders fee each year. The total First Nations employment at the mines is about 30-40%, the jobs are very well paid but the numbers are off because for statistical purposes they are allowed to include the hundreds of jobs that were only for the construction phases. Most of the jobs are not from "locals" regardless of their race. "There is no comparable example anywhere else of the manner in which aboriginals have been allowed to direct economic activity of this scope. " Still would love to here who you think is doing this? |
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Re: Conflict Diamonds
Post#18 @
07-09-05
, 01:22 PM
a reminder that this debate is to remain about the issues and not about the individual posters.... Irish |
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conflict
Post#19 @
09-05-05
, 12:28 PM
Nobody can know 100% sure if they purchase a conflict free diamond. If I go and buy rough diamonds from a conflict country manufacture them, certify them, put them into jewellery and sell them who will know the difference? |
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Re: Conflict Diamonds
the media plays up this "blood diamonds" or "conflict diamonds" in the past 4 years, since the DeBeers corporation is finally being kicked out of the african continent. for over 100 years they have been pillaging and killing the people for these simple rocks. it is a fact for the past 100 years ALL DIAMONDS have been blood diamonds. the slave like the conditions the people have endured so some rich witch can show off to her friends. oh yeah diamonds aren't rare either i have seen footage of warehouses 6 football fields in length stacked from the ceiling to the floor full of diamonds. the rhodes scholarship is still being funded by the money he made from enslaving central and southern africans to dig for diamonds (barehanded) in his stolen diamond mines he killed thousands of africans s to steal their land. |
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