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Quote this post and reply to it Post#1 @ 11-16-00 , 10:28 PM


When consumers wish to get a diamond evaluated or appraised, is it appropriate for the appraiser to recommend a seller?
Is his job to evaluate the job at hand,or to establish that he can direct the consumer to one of his associates that has something to offer for sale?
If a dealer sends something for a client to the appraiser, should the appraiser contact his associates and share information so they can offer something as well? In other words,should the appraiser assist his friends in the business in competeing with another for a sale?


I had a discussion with a client that expressed some of these concerns.


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Quote this post and reply to it Post#2 @ 11-16-00 , 10:50 PM


Isn't it the job of the appraiser to just appraise the diamond at hand - unbiasly of whom it's from? That would be my opinion at least.

But I think it would get even more interesting if the consumer started asking questions like:

"Do you think I can get a better deal from somewhere else? From whom?"

What is the appraiser suppose to do or say? Where are the lines drawn for "working for the customer" and doing a pure "appraisal."


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Quote this post and reply to it Post#3 @ 11-16-00 , 10:58 PM


interesting if we could get rockdoc's opinion on this one.

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Quote this post and reply to it Post#4 @ 11-16-00 , 11:58 PM


My Opinion
If the appraiser is independent, then they absolutely, positively, should not suggest another jeweler to the consumer. His job is to appraise the jewelry in question, not to kill one person's sale and then suggest an associates service. I think this would be a conflict of interest.
Now if the consumer asks the appraiser if he knows any sellers that could find him a "better" buy. I would think the appraiser couldn't/shouldn't suggest anything. For an appraiser to be independent, he can't be a referal service. It undermines the integrity of his entire service as an 'independent appraiser'
My opinion
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Quote this post and reply to it Post#5 @ 11-17-00 , 12:07 AM


<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>Now if the consumer asks the appraiser if he knows any sellers that could find him a "better" buy. I would think the appraiser couldn't/shouldn't suggest anything. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The appraiser can suggest they read diamondtalk! Yeah, go diamondtalk!!!


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Quote this post and reply to it Post#6 @ 11-17-00 , 12:13 AM





<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Johnny Boy:
The appraiser can suggest they read diamondtalk! Yeah, go diamondtalk!!!
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>



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Quote this post and reply to it Post#7 @ 11-17-00 , 12:26 AM


I think everybody should suggest DTalk to everyone. Let's face it all the vendors here tell it straight up. Every new consumer to this site will learn what type service to expect and demand from their local jeweler or internet buy.
DTalk is Networking. It brings the consumer, the jewelers, and appraisers together to the benefit of all involved.
Some vendors may get some business out of it, or learn bout something they were questioning. Consumers benefit the most. We learn in depth details of proper diamond buying, and if we choose to do so, buy from one of the respected vendors here at a greatly discounted price.
Dtalk gets my vote for Internet Site of the Year. Anyone know where we can start voting?!!
BADM0


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Quote this post and reply to it Post#8 @ 11-17-00 , 08:23 AM





[Edited by Jan on 11-17-2000.]

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Quote this post and reply to it Post#9 @ 11-17-00 , 10:51 AM


Brad,

Interesting topic name, good topic. My thoughts are that the appraiser's job first and foremost, is to give an accurate appraisal of whatever stone is submitted to him/her by the customer. If the stone is not as advertised, poorly cut, etc..., and the customer asks the appraiser for names of dealers who he has had good experiences with, I think that the appraiser should feel justified in giving a list of names that he has dealt with before, with the follwing caviats:

1 - The appraiser receives no financial remuneration for the referral. This obviously would completely ruin his independence.

2 - The dealers that the appraiser lists have no "affiliation" as you put it with the appraiser. (ie., Not related in any way, business partners, etc.)

Obviously over practicing for many, many years, jewelers and appraisers alike will develop certain relationships with others in the industry that treat them with respect. I don't see a problem with this, as long as an appraiser doesn't begin "slamming" stones of other jewelers in order to make a sale to one of their "preferred" dealers.

I personally think this would be relatively easy to detect if it became a pattern. If customers consistently took stones to an appraiser who "bashed" the stones of certain dealers for no good reason, he would begin to be blackballed in the industry as jewelers, except for his "preferred" jewelers, would begin to rise up against him and refuse to send stones to him due to his bias.

Just my opinion. Curious to hear other thoughts.

E

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Quote this post and reply to it Post#10 @ 11-17-00 , 11:31 AM


"preferred" dealers. ???????????

Brad


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Quote this post and reply to it Post#11 @ 11-17-00 , 11:35 AM


Brad,

What I meant my "preferred" was the list of dealers with which the appraiser had worked with in the past and had good experiences with (meaning felt that they were fair and represented their stones accurately). The reason I put "preferred" in quotes was that the term wasn't the most accurate one, but the only one I could come up with.

E

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Quote this post and reply to it Post#12 @ 11-17-00 , 12:46 PM


How does a dealer become "preferred" ????

Brad





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Quote this post and reply to it Post#13 @ 11-17-00 , 12:51 PM


I think there is a very fine line there, Rockdoc. I would think you would have to be careful of slander if you disclose to the consumer that typically a particular seller's stones don't match the lab report. I think the job first and foremost is to grade the stone you have been given and if the consumer then asks for "recommendations", give him a list of those sellers you are comfortable with.

As a consumer, I personally would appreciate you telling me in advance about a particular dealer who consistently misrepresents stones. However, I think it subjects you to too much potential exposure from dealers who could sue you for slander. Who is to say that this time, the dealer isn't sending you a stone that is graded properly? If they are, you've just cost them a sale.

Unfortunately, some consumers will have to pay to find out which dealers misrepresent stones. However, I would hope that over time, dealers would either learn not to send stones to you as they know they can't "pull one over on you" because you will perform an accurate assessment.

Just my 2 cents. This is a difficult/sensitive topic.

E



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Quote this post and reply to it Post#14 @ 11-17-00 , 12:57 PM


What an interesting thread. It shows how very few people understand what an apparaisal is and how it is performed.

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Quote this post and reply to it Post#15 @ 11-17-00 , 12:58 PM


Come on, Brad, say what you really think. Weigh in with your opinion, this is a great topic. You obviously have an opinion here.

As I said before, I am the one who said "preferred" dealer. I've already explained my use of the term. Meaning, if a dealer consistently sends stones in to an appraiser that are consistently misgraded, they wouldn't be "preferred" by the appraiser. That doesn't mean he shouldn't give an accurate appraisal on these stones.

Alternatively, if "preferred" dealers send in stones to the appraiser that are misrepresented, then I think the appraiser has an obligation to give an accurate assessment to the consumer of the stone and not just give the "thumbs up" because the dealer is "preferred". Bottom line to me is that an appraiser's first job is to appraise the stone they are given. IF they are asked by the consumers for recommendations, I don't see a problem giving the consumer a list of dealers that have typically accurately represented their stones.

E

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Quote this post and reply to it Post#16 @ 11-17-00 , 01:01 PM


<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>Originally posted by jbacon:
What an interesting thread. It shows how very few people understand what an apparaisal is and how it is performed.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

then by all means, jump in and let us know.

i know that sounds mean but it isnt intended to. i'm not starting a fight but would like to hear what you mean by that.

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[Edited by NDnewbie on 11-17-2000.]

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Quote this post and reply to it Post#17 @ 11-17-00 , 01:16 PM


If you are a "preferred" dealer then why are you "preferred" ? Should the appraiser assist his friends in the business that are "preferred" in competeing with another?

Brad




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Quote this post and reply to it Post#18 @ 11-17-00 , 01:41 PM


Ok, Brad. Now you are changing at least what I mean by "preferred". Again, what I am saying is that for one, the appraiser should not offer a list of dealers unless requested by the customer. Two, in my mind his list would not be "his friends", but dealers who have consistently sent him stones that weren't consistently misrepresented.

As far as "assisting his friends in the business that are "preferred" in competing with another", I don't think that is what he's doing. He's only providing a list of names that he has dealt with personally. He obviously shouldn't tell the consumer that their are no other reputable dealers out there and that they shouldn't look anywhere else. Only that the list he is giving them are folks he has dealt with before.

To me, what I've described above is a lot different than an appraiser talking to a customer about a stone and advising him against a particular dealer in the absence of the customer asking his opinion.

E

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Quote this post and reply to it Post#19 @ 11-17-00 , 02:25 PM


E,
I'm not changing anything. I'm just asking more questions based on my original post.
Everything relates to the orginal topic,which was an actual conversation I had with someone recently.
If an appraiser prefers another dealer and recommends them above the others couldn`t this be considered preferential treatment.
What if a consumer calls the appraiser on the phone and says I`m considering a diamond from a particular dealer, and the dealer is not at the top of the appraisers prefered dealer list?
What I`m saying isn`t it probable that the aprraiser would recommend another?


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Quote this post and reply to it Post#20 @ 11-17-00 , 02:37 PM


<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>Originally posted by NDnewbie to Joe Bacon whom he quoted:
then by all means, jump in and let us know.

i know that sounds mean but it isnt intended to. i'm not starting a fight but would like to hear what you mean by that.

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[Edited by NDnewbie on 11-17-2000.]
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You didn't sound mean, NDN. Joe sounded irascible and sarcastic. Joe, if you did *NOT* intend sarcasm ( a put down of all the other people who had contributed to this thread before you), please say so. Otherwise I can only assume I am right and you came in with a nasty put down of others because you didn't like what was said and were too lazy to argue it out on its merits.

AGBF



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Quote this post and reply to it Post#21 @ 11-17-00 , 02:53 PM


Brad,

You said, "I'm just asking more questions based on my original post.
Everything relates to the orginal topic,which was an actual conversation I had with someone recently."

Unfortunately, I wasn't privy to the conversation you had, so I am giving my opinion on what I think would be proper for an appraiser.

The information in your initial post was pretty limited. To answer a specific question from your initial post, which was, "If a dealer sends something for a client to the appraiser, should the appraiser contact his associates and share information so they can offer something as well? In other words, should the appraiser assist his friends in the business in competeing with another for a sale?"

My answer we be that the appraiser should absolutely not "contact his associates and share information so they can offer something as well." If the consumer simply gave the appraiser a stone to review, I think it would be unethical for an appraiser to then call his "associates" and ask for comparable stones.

I'm still curious as to how your initial discussion with this consumer went. How are "associates" defined? Did the appraiser receive money from these "associates"? Did the consumer ask the appraiser specifically for some dealers he could recommend?

Just some additional questions.

E

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Quote this post and reply to it Post#22 @ 11-17-00 , 03:09 PM


OK Guys,
Not to long ago a jeweler in Fla. got sent up the river for switching stones, cheating, misrepresenting stones and who knows what else.
If an appraiser in his city knew this man was a crook, before all the world knew it, and a client asked the appraiser about the dishonest jeweler, is the appraiser supposed to keep his mouth shut or warn the client?
dimonbob

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Quote this post and reply to it Post#23 @ 11-17-00 , 03:10 PM


E QUOTE:I'm still curious as to how your initial discussion with this consumer went. How are "associates" defined? Did the appraiser receive money from these "associates"? Did the consumer ask the appraiser specifically for some dealers he could recommend?

Associates would be defined as friends in the business, buddies. No the consumer didn`t ask for specific dealer recommendations. He was offered by the appraiser. He also hasn`t had anything evaluated yet.

Brad


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Quote this post and reply to it Post#24 @ 11-17-00 , 03:25 PM


Dimonbob,

In your instance, if the appraiser knew of outright fraud, then I would say he absolutely should tell the customer. However, what I am getting at more is if a dealer has some history of some stones that don't quite grade as advertised (maybe a grade or two off consistently), then I don't think it is the duty of the appraiser to automatically voice his opinion to the customer. If the customer asks specifically, it becomes a little more gray. I just don't think the appraiser should voice a bias without the customer asking an opinion, unless there is an instance of previous outright fraud as in your example.

E

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Quote this post and reply to it Post#25 @ 11-17-00 , 05:37 PM


E -- i just wanted you to know that you dont stand alone on your thoughts. i wish i had more time to come on and post more on this topic but i am just in a rush right now. the next few days are a little busy so i dont know if i'll get around to this soon but i wanted you to know you're not alone on this one.

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