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Old Jan

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Quote this post and reply to it Post#51 @ 12-06-99 , 01:45 PM


When and if you ever do get it checked by a Certified Gemologist Appraiser, make sure they look at it loose. Just a suggestion. But the laboratories also grade the stones loose, so they can get an accurate: weight, color, clarity and proportions.

Old citizenK


Quote this post and reply to it Post#52 @ 12-06-99 , 03:18 PM


I'm sure you're pleasing the silent, less vocal, happy majority. Keep up the good work!

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Quote this post and reply to it Post#53 @ 12-07-99 , 01:57 AM


Good news!
Well folks (Jan, Brad, Steve & RockDoc):

I finally found a platinum setting for my diamond from an AGS certified jeweler. While I still plan to have it independently appraised after the holidays, he complemented me on my "smart purchase". Yes, he was able to weigh the loose diamond on a digital scale and it came out exactly at 1.29. He wasn't doing this for an appraisal; he wanted to document the diamond I was giving him so that he and I had something to reference when I pick it up later this week, perhaps as early as tomorrow since all work is done in-house. He didn't take any measurements but he did state that it was a well-cut, very brilliant diamond and that the color and clarity were in order. He stated that as long as the information about the diamond on the certificate is accurate, it shouldn't matter where it was certified, unless I bought it as an investment. Well, this is not an investment and I don't plan on selling it or trading it in. I've been married for ten happy years and I wanted to replace the rings my wife has been wearing; a white gold set my Dad first gave my Mom when they first got married over 35 years ago. Anyway, this jeweler said some consumers, like me, often spend too much time on the technical side of diamonds and forget about why they are looking to buy one in the first place. Talk about your preverbial brick up side the head! He really brought everything back into perpective for me. After he examined it, he said the only thing that should matter TO ME is whether I'm happy with it and the joy my wife will feel when I present it to her in the new setting. I can't wait to surprise her at the end of the year. I thank you all for your help, especially you Jan, for helping me avoid that platinum fiasco. This is a very informative forum, and I'm sure I'll visit here again to get useful information about this incredible diamond industry. My very best to all!

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Quote this post and reply to it Post#54 @ 12-07-99 , 04:33 AM


Just had a question, I was wondering why a quality stone (diamond) appears have a bluer sparkle to it. I imagine it has to do with either cut or clarity but was wondering why. I asked someone that has a web page about the color spectrum and they said it was because quality meant man made. Obviously he was mistaken. Thanks.

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Quote this post and reply to it Post#55 @ 12-07-99 , 07:57 AM


Jimbo,
I'm not sure what you mean by a blue sparkle, but a well cut stone does break up the light into the spectral colors of the rainbow. However it is quite possible that you are looking at some fluorescence in the stone. The most common color for a diamond to fluorscence is blue. It is not a bad think as long as it doesn't affect the clarity and look hazy and oily.

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Quote this post and reply to it Post#56 @ 12-07-99 , 07:59 AM


West,
You're welcome. Congratulations on finding a mounting. I hope that your fiance or wife is really pleased with what you picked out. Have a happy holliday.

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Quote this post and reply to it Post#57 @ 12-07-99 , 01:49 PM


West,

Congratulations! I'm glad that this fiasco (with your setting) is finally over. I'm even MORE glad that you found a jeweler that could put the whole diamond buying process in perspective, and was able to confirm the value of your purchase from Tad at Private Diamonds.

Let us know how she reacts to your wonderful gift!!!

Sincerely,

Jim Schultz
www.DirtCheapDiamonds.com



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Quote this post and reply to it Post#58 @ 12-07-99 , 03:18 PM


Can anyone explain to me why diamonds are
so valuable? I have a feeling that the
entire diamond industry is selling magic
and fooling the consumers. There is an
article on The Economist (12/??/97) that
illustrates how De Beers did it.

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Quote this post and reply to it Post#59 @ 12-08-99 , 07:00 AM


YOUNGPAPA,

YOU SEEM VERY HELPFULL TO EVERYBODY ON THIS BOARD.I WONDER IF U COULD HELP ME IN DETERMINING IF THIS STONE IS OF GOOD PROPORTIONS.
OVAL SHAPE
5.12 CTS
VS2
F COLOR
MEASURMENTS 13.11 X 9.05 X 6.33 MM
PROPORTIONS:
GIRDLE:THICK 5% FACETED
CULET :POINTED
TABLE WIDTH 54 %
CR HEIGHT 18%
PAV DEP 46.5%
FINISH GRADE VERY GOOD

ANYTHING THAT STANDS OUT AS A WARNING SIGNAL FORM THESE MEASURMENTS???.I UNDERSTAND ALL THE DETAILS , BUT I AM NOT TOO SURE ABOUT THE RATIOS AND MEASURMENTS.

MANY THANKS FOR YOUR HELP.


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Quote this post and reply to it Post#60 @ 12-08-99 , 09:51 AM


Steven,

Thanks for the compliment, but that type of stone is way out of my league...

I can't imagine a diamond of that size/color/clarity is coming cheap, nor that you can get a dozen to choose from. Have you had a chance to see it? If so, did you like it? Does it seem to be a good value, all things considered? The answers to those questions are as important as any crown angles...

Steve?? Jan?? Can you help out with a more technical answer.


Jim Schultz
www.DirtCheapDiamonds.com


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Quote this post and reply to it Post#61 @ 12-08-99 , 10:36 AM


THANKS YOUNGPAPA FOR YOUR HELP.IT IS SO CONSIDERATE OF U.YES IT IS A SUBSTANTIAL DIAMOND.AND FOR YOU INFO,ASKING PRICE IS APPX
55,000 USD.ISN T MY FUTURE WIFE LUCKY??...WELL I CONSIDER MYSELF LUCK TO HAVE HER, AND I CAN AFFORT IT , SO WHO CARES.
LIFE IS TOO SHORT.
THANKS AGAIN.

I WOULD APPRECIATE ANY OTHER COMMENTS FROM ANY ONÊ ON THIS BOARD.

THANKS

STEVE.

Diamond Search:

Carat:  to  Color:  to  Clarity:  to  


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Quote this post and reply to it Post#62 @ 12-08-99 , 06:13 PM


The only problem that I see is the depth% is over 69%, so it looks like a high crown height and high percentage on the pavillion depth and very thick girdle which means you would be paying for a lot of weight that you won't see. Also you didn't say whether or not it has a GIA lab report. Most of the time diamonds in that size range do. The price looks o.k. though, I only saw one stone that I thought was cut better for a similar price.

Jan at www.diamondbrokersoffl.co m


[This message has been edited by Jan (edited 12-09-1999).]

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Quote this post and reply to it Post#63 @ 12-08-99 , 09:28 PM


The return of the prodigal son, and a lesson in manners:

Allow me to first thank Rockdoc for his compliment. It was very considerate.

Second, I would like to express my approval of the concepts and context of which Rockdoc writes. Rockdoc shows a very ethical stance in an industry that sometimes is hard to separate from indiscretion and out right deception. I do not feel that his comments were directly meant to challenge the sovereignty of any of the individual users on this board. Rather, his analogy was an applied example, which I believe many consumers, including myself, would appreciate.

I personally do not see the defamation of youngpapa’s character, and in the case he would sell a diamond that I would like at a good value I would definitely purchase it.

As for Michelle's fiancée, your arguments are in direct contradiction to the very intent of your post. You persecute Rockdoc for using discrete examples, and perhaps picking on individuals, yet behold in the very next paragraph you attempt to mock my personal opinion. Perhaps this is due to the inability to find factual dilemma in my opinion, as stated.

With that said, I should also like to continue to say that I never mentioned my stance on cut quality as being any different to my stance on clarity. The presumption that cut quality does not effect the fire of a stone is, mildly put, a sham. I believe that the consumer should select the best possible characteristics of a stone he/she can. This, of course, is applied to all of the 4C’s. One should not discount the value of a cut. A beautiful stone can be found with AGS-0 table, AGS-0 girdle, and AGS-0 pavilion, but beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Indeed, this means that the consumer should examine the differences in each cut and decide for himself, which he will be most satisfied with. As we all know, impulse buying (especially under vested interest pressures, such as an unscrupulous jeweler) can be a mistake that is detrimental to satisfaction of a product. In my opinion strive for the best you can get in all fields.

I hope most of this is coherent; I have typed this statement rather quickly due to time pressures. Best wishes to ALL. Happy diamond hunting.


*** Once again, all views expressed in any of the posts by wilk1 are personal opinions and should only be viewed as such. (“I’m just another guy with a whole lot of opinions.”)


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Quote this post and reply to it Post#64 @ 12-09-99 , 04:53 AM


JAN, THANKS SO MUCH FOR YOUR REPLY. IT IS VERY HELPFUL.YES THE STONE DOES HAVE AN HRD CERTIFICATE FROM BELGIUM, AS I AM BASED IN EUROPE.

MANY THANKS AGAIN.

STEVE

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Quote this post and reply to it Post#65 @ 04-05-00 , 12:53 PM


<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>Originally posted by YOungPapa on 05-25-99 08:56 AM
This question goes out to both the experienced jeweler and more importantly "John Q. Public".

Why buy VVS clarity diamonds?

I have been dealing diamonds part-time for about a year now. Over the course of the last year I have had a chance to see everything from VVS1 to I3 clarity diamonds. Although I agree that Imperfect diamonds take a special kind of buyer and that SI2/SI3 are not always "eye-clean", I still have to chuckle when I see people buying 1/3 carat D-VVS1 diamonds. Why not maximize that budget and look for a nice SI clarity diamond? Put a 35 point D-VVS1 next to a 70 point G-SI2 and tell me which one most women would choose?!?

Am I the only one not driving a Bentley or a Rolls Royce? When did size stop being important? If any woman tells you size isn't important she might be trying not to hurt your feelings...

Here are my guesstimates as to why so many people inquire about VVS stones. I look forward to feedback:

1. Lack of information: Most people simply look at a clarity scale and don't understand that SI clarity is just as beautiful as VVS to the naked eye.
2. Misinformation: Jewelers can't sell the VVS diamonds so they promote them to buyers with small budgets.
3. The "linear theory": On a scale of D-Z, I/J color doesn't look too bad. On a scale of Flawless through Imperfect, VVS "looks about right".
4. Pride: If you can't have two carats or "D" color, why not have the best clarity, even if it's at the cost of color or carat?
5. All or some of the above.

In no way am I trying to offend anyone, nor do I think that there is anything wrong with buying VVS stones, IF budget is not an issue and you have adequate color/carat/cut values. I'm just trying to understand the dynamics of this whole process.

As I've said in other postings; It doesn't matter what you read, it doesn't matter what anyone tells you: At the end of the day carat is king. No woman has ever looked at my wife's ring and said "Wow - is that VVS clarity!" It's always been "Damn - that thing is BIG!!!" (slightly spread 1.5 ct G-SI1 and proud of it...)

Jim Schultz
YoungPapa@netscape.net


[This message has been edited by YOungPapa (edited 05-25-99).]

[This message has been edited by YOungPapa (edited 05-25-99).]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>



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Quote this post and reply to it Post#66 @ 04-05-00 , 01:07 PM


Young Papa,

Like anything else, taste is important. I agree in one respect, I would never buy a .50 carat VVS, however, I DID buy a 1.25 carat colorless VVS1 - IDEAL CUT. For the same price, I could have gotten between 2 and 3 carats in a G SI, though it would look like a rainy day in comparison. My wife doesn't hear, "Damn that thing is big". She DOES hear "your ring is beautiful". It stands out because it looks like a tiny flashlight in a dark movie theater. I'm not so sure that "that thing is big" is a compliment, in as much as it's simply a remark. Also, you're right, some women do care about size. Some women also think having huge bleached hair and riding in a convertible pink Cadillac while wearing a rabbit fur is CLASSY!

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>Originally posted by YOungPapa on 05-25-99 08:56 AM
This question goes out to both the experienced jeweler and more importantly "John Q. Public".

Why buy VVS clarity diamonds?

I have been dealing diamonds part-time for about a year now. Over the course of the last year I have had a chance to see everything from VVS1 to I3 clarity diamonds. Although I agree that Imperfect diamonds take a special kind of buyer and that SI2/SI3 are not always "eye-clean", I still have to chuckle when I see people buying 1/3 carat D-VVS1 diamonds. Why not maximize that budget and look for a nice SI clarity diamond? Put a 35 point D-VVS1 next to a 70 point G-SI2 and tell me which one most women would choose?!?

Am I the only one not driving a Bentley or a Rolls Royce? When did size stop being important? If any woman tells you size isn't important she might be trying not to hurt your feelings...

Here are my guesstimates as to why so many people inquire about VVS stones. I look forward to feedback:

1. Lack of information: Most people simply look at a clarity scale and don't understand that SI clarity is just as beautiful as VVS to the naked eye.
2. Misinformation: Jewelers can't sell the VVS diamonds so they promote them to buyers with small budgets.
3. The "linear theory": On a scale of D-Z, I/J color doesn't look too bad. On a scale of Flawless through Imperfect, VVS "looks about right".
4. Pride: If you can't have two carats or "D" color, why not have the best clarity, even if it's at the cost of color or carat?
5. All or some of the above.

In no way am I trying to offend anyone, nor do I think that there is anything wrong with buying VVS stones, IF budget is not an issue and you have adequate color/carat/cut values. I'm just trying to understand the dynamics of this whole process.

As I've said in other postings; It doesn't matter what you read, it doesn't matter what anyone tells you: At the end of the day carat is king. No woman has ever looked at my wife's ring and said "Wow - is that VVS clarity!" It's always been "Damn - that thing is BIG!!!" (slightly spread 1.5 ct G-SI1 and proud of it...)

Jim Schultz
YoungPapa@netscape.net


[This message has been edited by YOungPapa (edited 05-25-99).]

[This message has been edited by YOungPapa (edited 05-25-99).]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>



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Quote this post and reply to it Post#67 @ 04-07-00 , 07:04 PM


I have consulted with a diamond expert from diamondring.com already about this diamond I am planning to buy in a few days. With all respect to him and he knows who he is, can someone give me the feedback on these diamonds:

1.09ct
Clarity: VS-1
Color: F
Flourescense: None
Cut: Heart & Arrow - B Grade
Cert: GIA
Polish: EX
Symmetry: EX
Proportions: ID
Total Depth%: 61.5
Table% Diameter: 55
Crown Angle: 34.2
Pavilion Depth%: 43.3
Girdle: N-M-F
Culet: None
Price: $8,100

I will also be purchasing two side stones:

.19ct each
Clarity: VS-1
Color: F
Cut: Ideal Cut
Price for both: around $600.00

After discount my Total Price: $8,564

Is this a good deal?
Thanks in advance!

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Quote this post and reply to it Post#68 @ 04-08-00 , 01:51 AM


From a RockDoc Supporter....

I can attest to his integrity, generousity, and no-strings approach to educating a misguided consumer. He is NOT motivated by profit! He has freely given his excellent advice, pro-bono! We were aided and enlightened by his experience, BUT we, regretably, chose to do our own negotiating in the end.

Our conflict has been ongoing since Nov 99 with no resolution. My previous posts have given the details of our purchase but omitted the merchant's name. I told Iceman and Jan that I would name the merchant when we had a resolution. We aren't there yet, and may never be. Thanks to Rockdoc's posts today, I am now motivated to name the retailer. It's time to show RockDoc's courage and face our reality.

DIAMONDS INTERNATIONAL - ARUBA
NY City based company with many outlets throughout the US and islands......a retail haven for tourists and cruisers. They are steadfastly uncooperative, belligerent, and slip you with a store receipt to sign that looks like a typical store receipt BUT it releases them if there are grading discrepancies (if you read the grayed, fine print on the back). Their sales people can say anything they want to encourage you to buy. Bottom line......that insignificant sales receipt is a legal document......negates the salesman's promises! No disclosure necessary as to what's printed on the back. You are HAD. There is much more to their misrepresentation than I will not get into, but DON'T rely on your credit card company getting you out -- even with extensive documentation.

Iceman and Jan...... hope I have fulfilled my promise to you to disclose and want to thank you for your honest opinions. I also hope that this keeps others from making our mistake. Unfortunately, without major network coverage, I doubt that Diamonds International's true profile will ever get to the general public who will be vulnerable to their non-consumer-friendly stores. My advice is educate yourself beyond what the store salemen tell you. Study this forum and listen to those experts who care!

Listen to RockDoc's expertise - use it as your guide for excellence. Decide what is exceptable for you and purchase wisely, within your budget.

GemLess



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Quote this post and reply to it Post#69 @ 04-08-00 , 12:15 PM


To: STEVEN ( Unregistered )

On fancy cut stones such as the oval gem you are eyeing, do lab reports also provide the same valuations on the diamond's details as on brilliant cut round diamonds. e.g. culet, girdle, etc..? Still learning.

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Quote this post and reply to it Post#70 @ 04-08-00 , 01:13 PM


Cat,

STEVEN (unregistered) is probably long gone since everybody was forced to register on 12-18-99 (including myself) if we wanted to continue posting on this forum. Unless STEVEN registered under a different name, I don't know if he's still here.

Anyway, regarding your question, lab reports do provide information on diamond's details for fancy shapes; however, not all lab reports provide the proportions, which are very important. AGS includes the proportions on its reports, but GIA doesn't do this. You could find the recommended proportions for all cuts on www.datlas.com or www.gemappraisers.com

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Quote this post and reply to it Post#71 @ 04-08-00 , 03:47 PM


Michelle's Fiancee,

Thanks for your help. It is always great to learn so much on this forum

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Quote this post and reply to it Post#72 @ 04-12-00 , 04:31 PM


I just found this site today and have really enjoyed reading everyone's opinions. Rockdoc, thank you for sharing your background with us. It was both touching and informative to know where you are coming from. As for youngpapa, I have spoken with your wife, Michele, and, living in Maryland, would love to buy a diamond from you. Your prices are great and your selection on fancy-shaped diamonds is impressive, even if they aren't yours. Call me anal, but I've kinda taken my search for an oval diamond and made it into a hobby. I've created a matrix for over 40 oval cut diamonds between 1.5 and 3.0 carats and compared them based on 11 factors. I've printed the certs that were available just for reference. I've talked with a number of dealers and jewelry shops just to see what they have to say. I've asked a lot of questions and gotten a lot of advice. I've found that you can find the exact same stone from 4 different dealers and find huge price differences! (youngpapa tends to have the lowest prices on the stones I have searched for versus the same stone on other websites.)

Rockdoc is trying to protect us from our own lack of knowledge for which I appreciate. For my two cents worth, I want a big diamond (2carats+), something very white (D to F color), but, as price is a factor and therefore something needs to be sacrificed, I am looking at SI stones. If an inclusion isn't obvious to the naked eye and doesn't reflect in the stone, then I don't care if there are 1,000 inclusions. No, this stone will not be as rare. But I have friends who's husbands got them very clear but small stones and, years down the road found that the day-to-day grime took a big part of the clarity away and wished instead that they'd had a bigger stone. Initially, I thought that I needed to be in the $15K range to find a 2carat+ stone, but now know differently. I almost bought a 2.31 D SI3 oval for $7200, but it was sold hours before I could give a credit card #. Now, the exact stone (due to exact cert #) is on a NY brokers site for $9200. Very interesting.

Anyways, just wanted to say "hi" and I look forward to reading more opinions.

Rockdoc, I haven't had a chance to check out your website but look forward to seeing it.



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Quote this post and reply to it Post#73 @ 04-12-00 , 09:31 PM


basnjas,

Thanks for the compliment. To be brutally honest Michele does all the work and I just "close" the deals and take the credit (ha-ha). You should give us a call back when you find that "perfect" stone and we'll get it sent in for you!

Best of luck in your search...

Jim & Michele
www.DirtCheapDiamonds.com



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Quote this post and reply to it Post#74 @ 04-12-00 , 10:24 PM


This must be the longest thread in Diamond Talk history, I wonder if it will break a hundred.


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Quote this post and reply to it Post#75 @ 04-13-00 , 11:20 AM


Hello everyone.

Rockdoc, I checked out your website and found the comparison of stones as seen by their brilliance to be fascinating. I would be interested in having any stone that I consider purchasing analyzed in this way. Also, I have basically ruled out buying an SI3 stone for many reasons, but mainly because I don't trust that it won't have very visible inclusions. If it didn't, EGL would probably rate it an SI1 or SI2, eh? Youngpapa, if I was to buy a stone through you, could I have the diamond sent to Rockdoc for analysis before I decide to purchase? From speaking with Michele, the main source of your oval stones is a place that does not take credit cards. Would I have to put a full deposit down on the stone to have it analyzed? If I decided not to purchase it, would I get my full deposit back (less shipping costs?)

Rockdoc, when you say a "better cut" stone, do you think that I could get a brilliant-looking SI1 or SI2 from GIA that would face up well, ie. an H or I that would face up colorless? Or would I have to get into the VS or VVS clarity to accomplish this task?



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