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Old marriahlyn
 
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Quote this post and reply to it Post#1 @ 06-26-03 , 08:36 PM


Please give me some insight on what you think of them and what you would do if you were handed one!!

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Quote this post and reply to it Post#2 @ 06-26-03 , 08:49 PM


I am personally not really in favor of them. It is my belief that if you are serious enough to make the commitment of marriage and share your life, heart, soul, etc. with someone then the material things should be willingly shared as well. As to the second part, if I were handed one I would seriously have to question what the real reasons/motivations behind it were.
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Quote this post and reply to it Post#3 @ 06-26-03 , 08:53 PM


Whew. I can see this topic becoming controversial!

I personally would have to agree with 3forMe. I think if you are willing to share everything, you should be willing to share EVERYTHING. I also tend to believe that is going into a marriage preparing for separation/divorce. It would appear that you aren't going into the marriage with the intention that it is for eternity; 'til death do you part.

I would be bothered if I were handed one and I too would have to question the reasoning.

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I have a different take on this...
Quote this post and reply to it Post#4 @ 06-26-03 , 09:28 PM


pre nups are good, sometimes. As in when family $ is involved. The rest of the family didn't choose the spouse... That said, I know of one marriage that almost didn't happen because of the pre nup - even though the dh had been telling dw from the time they dated he wanted one... another broken engagement - pre nup was the straw that broke the camel's back on that one... both instances of the DH protecting family interests.


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Quote this post and reply to it Post#5 @ 06-26-03 , 10:24 PM


I agree with the fist two posters responses, and agree with tinatark that if it's a high profile type marriage where big money and celebrities are involved it can be a good thing. But for most of us normal folk, I think they're unnecessary and the possible implications involved can cause more potential harm than gain.

With divorce rates so high, sure, it might sound like a good idea. But I guess the idealist in me just thinks it's pretty sad to go into the marriage with the worst case scenario.

Also, I think most mature, reasonable individuals could come to an amicable agreement if the marriage did fail after it is all said and done without making it necessary to even get a pre-nup.


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There are so many things that need to be considered
Quote this post and reply to it Post#6 @ 06-27-03 , 04:14 AM


Prenups are not just for the rich and famous.

There are many factors that you should think about. If both parties are single with few assets, then there's no need for a prenup. But if one of the party (or both) has kids from another relationship, or one of the party will be getting a great inheritance, or one of the party has considerably more assets than the other, then the prenup isn't a bad idea.

For me, I don't oppose it. I think that if both people stay together, great - the prenup is useless. But if things ever change and the love that was once there is gone, then the prenup serves to protect BOTH people's interest as agreed upon. No messy fighting here.

Just make sure to have your own lawyer look at the prenup to make sure YOUR interests are protected and that the agreement is fair before you give your John Hancock away.

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Quote this post and reply to it Post#7 @ 06-27-03 , 09:17 AM


I think hammy makes some good points. If one or both the parties have children already and inheritances that would go to them I would think a pre-nup is a good idea.

I am married for the second time (happily). But my first husband handed me a pre-nup because he had a house and some assets and I basically owned my car and that's it. I told him it was a waste of his money to pay for lawyers to have a pre-nup because if we ever got divorced I wouldn't want his house or anything that wasn't mine. He insisted. My feelings were hurt and I felt that he didn't trust me. But I signed it because I meant what I had said and I wanted (I guess) to prove to him that I wasn't after his money. Well, we eventually did get divorced and I ended up paying HIM He charged me for half the wedding costs, honeymoon costs, and any money he had given me while we were married. He was a real loser. All HE was interested in WAS MONEY. What a nightmare he was! I will say that divorce makes some people crazy and they get very angry and greedy. So if there is a big difference in asset status between the two individuals, it might be a good idea to have a pre-nup. I think that being asked to sign one may be an indication of the personality of the asker (very MINE VS. YOURS) or it may be a wise request. Listen to your instincts. I wish I had!

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Quote this post and reply to it Post#8 @ 06-27-03 , 09:33 AM


Seagulls,

How terrible! And very very slimy to boot. He probably had the situation already planned as a hypothetical in his mind. Sick, sick. Glad you got out from that loser.

I tend to feel like you. I would hope that if it did come to divorce both me and my partner would willingly give up what was really mostly the other partner's anyway. It seems sad to me that adults can't divvy up the property fairly, just going by their honesty and common sense, but I am sure that in the messier divorces there would be more contesting and then some vengeful motives to mess up the mix.

I also agree with Hammy's points about kids and inheritance from previous affairs. A pre-nup seems like it would be a pretty good idea in those cases. I guess I was just thinking mostly along the lines of a first marriage for both where each partner is more "starting out". But there are many types of marriages and a best way to handle the money in each kind!


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Quote this post and reply to it Post#9 @ 06-27-03 , 09:39 AM


Those are VERY good points. I was thinking in terms of a new, young, first-time marriage too. There are all kinds of situations that would call for the need for a prenup, I completely agree. I have some young friends that are getting married next week... neither of them have much, but her family bought them a house and two new cars and INSISTED that they sign a prenup in order to receive these things. They needed the house and cars, so they agreed, but it was purely to satisfy her parents.

I do see both sides of the coin and completely understand why some people need them... BUT the romantic side of me keeps getting in the way.

I just can't help thinking that it is somehow starting the marriage off with a negative thought... "This is what we will do WHEN we divorce." I like to believe that no one gets divorced (ha ha, this is my second marriage) and that we should all enter into these marriages with the thinking that it is forever (yeah, I do like fairy tales).

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Quote this post and reply to it Post#10 @ 06-27-03 , 09:52 AM


synicgrrl,

I agree with you. In marriages where both people are starting out together from scratch pre-nup does not seem necessary. In my current marriage I feel we are more like partners and share everything. A pre-nup was not necessary.

The pre-nup from my first marriage was not necessary either (according to me) because I still feel I wouldn't have wanted anything of his anyways. But if I had not signed a pre-nup then maybe he wouldn't have been so easily inclined to insist that I pay HIM back. He might have been a bit afraid that if he asked me to pay him that I might have turned around and gone after half of his assets. So I would say that the pre-nup took the edge off of me and gave him the advantage. Even though I wouldn't have used the advantage, it would have helped to have it. I think I was very nieve and I also wanted out of that marriage so bad that I would have given up most of anything I owned to be free and clear of him Looking back I should have fought a little more.

Sorry for going on and on. Just thought I'd share in case it helps someone else in a similar situation.

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Personally I wouldn't sign one
Quote this post and reply to it Post#11 @ 06-27-03 , 11:36 AM


I heard on the radio a fews month ago this very same topic. Several lawyers said it was not a very good practice to start a marriage with a prenup because of the feelings it generates of mistrust and hurt. They said most prenups can be fought and changed down the road should a divorce happen, so why start off with those uneasy feelings. They said that the lines of what belongs to whom is very clearly written in each state when divorce proceedings start and end.

So they also said that it's usually unfortunate but entertaining to watch the couple that has signed a prenup to actually have to deal with the rules they came up with in the start of their marriage. You never know where you might end up financially so why put it down paper, you could do more harm to than protecting yourself.

My divorce was and still is pretty ugly...and it's been over for 8 years. He told me that he would have made me sign a prenup if he'd really considered it....as if he had anything back then! As it was he lied and hid money we had during our divorce.

I will add that if my parent's were gifting a house and cars, or a huge sum of money that a prenup might be in order then. Especially if the relationship is somewhat shakey....then again why would you get married?

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Quote this post and reply to it Post#12 @ 06-27-03 , 12:27 PM


Can you put a time-limit on a prenup? I might be in favor of one for a just-starting-out couple if the prenup only was effective if the couple split in, say, the first 3 years of marriage or until the birth of their first child. After a few years of marriage and with children in the picture, what stuff belongs to whom becaumes less distinct.

My ex wanted me to sign a prenup that included, among other clauses, an agreement that the control of household spending was in direct proportion to the amount of income contributed. In other words, if one of us made 60% of the money, that person had 60% control over what we spent that money on. The catch is, he also expected me to be a SAHM. I would contribute no money to the household, so I would have no say over what we spent it on. Yeah, like I'd EVER sign that.

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LM, yes Pre Nups
Quote this post and reply to it Post#13 @ 06-27-03 , 01:34 PM


are specific to your situation - you can include a clause "In the event of children..." or a gradual phase in of sharing assets, eventually the less wealthy person coming in would share ownership of assets, usually after 10 years or so.

Anyone remember Donald Trump's prenup with Marla Maples? He got out under the line, if they had stayed married longer she would have gotten a MUCH bigger piece of the pie.

Another thing a lot of people don't realize is, a pre nup lays out a list of all assets and liabilities of each partner. In so many marriages, this is something you find out about later.


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Tough decision
Quote this post and reply to it Post#14 @ 06-27-03 , 02:22 PM


I am divorced, I had no pre-nup. I was okay walking away with nothing in my particular situation but . . .

When you're in love you don't think about how much people can change over time. If you have assets such as an inheretance, real estate or stand to inherit or have children from a previous relationship, a pre-nup is a safety measure that you hope you never have to use. Pre-nups can be as simple as who gets what if there is a split in terms of existing assets and outline how future assets would be dealt with, it doesn't have to include all of this sick twisted ideas LittleMaggpie's ex wanted to include.

It also depends on your state laws. In some states pre-marital assets are exactly that. They at no point belong to the spouse unless a legally binding transaction takes place to change that. Like owning a home before you get married, unless you refinance and add your new spouse to the title and mortgage or by some other legal trans., that house stays property of the original owner in a divorce. This is a most touchy situation if both spouses contributed to the payoff (mortgage, taxes, upkeep) of the property during the relationship. However, there's more to that argument and easy ways to settle. My ex and I went through this-I'll give you more info if you want to know.

I am in favor of a simple pre-nup because though you think you don't mind sharing 100% and if you have nothing to start with, that splitting 50/50 if you should divorce would be a no brainer-you can't foresee what could possibly be your demise nor can you predict how either of you will handle it.

I know a couple getting divorce right now because when they married they agreed neither wanted children, well 12 years later-she does, and he still does not. It very well could have been the opposite argument, they could have both wanted and one party could have decided against children. They were in their mid-twenties when they married with no assets and are now approaching late thirties but this has been the argument for five years and they have decided to go their seperate ways. Who gets what?

To me it seems logical that they split the existing assets 50/50 since they built what they have together and make about the same financially but when you have a broken heart you feel like that is worth something and that the other party should lose something because he/she is renigging on the original deal. This is where a pre-nup turns emotional suffering into financial gain or . . .not.

I think if you get a pre nup it should not discuss great financial reward to either party upon the divorce. This is a divorce motivator- like someone else mentioned. Donald Trump ditched Marla right before the big money came into play per the pre-nup. My understanding about Tom Cruise and Nicole Kidman was that their pre-nup had an expiration clause, after 10 years, it's up for grabs. Well, he filed a week or two before their 10 year anniversary. When you have a financial motivation to get out of a love relationship, it's easier to leave the argument than work through it because many a fool thinks money=happiness. You start to focus on the bad times instead of the good. It can also work the other way. You marry a psycho who changes after you say I do, wedded bliss turns into agony but you think you'll stick it out until you hit the paydirt date. Dangerous, I've heard of horror stories about this! It's no way to live love.

Just my 50 cents.

Last edited by Lanee : 06-27-03 at 02:27 PM.
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Quote this post and reply to it Post#15 @ 06-27-03 , 02:43 PM


When I married 24 years ago, it was my first marriage, my husband's second. He had a child, a bitch of an ex-wife, and a generous heart. I had inherited money he wanted me to protect, so we were very careful with noting where all of our assets were spent when we started out. He wanted to make sure his ex didn't try to attach anything while their daughter was still a minor. We didn't have a pre-nup but just kept meticulous records so there was NO confusion. As it turned out I gifted that bratty kid her college education but finally cut her off after 5 1/2 years w/o a graduation in sight. She still thinks she was entitled to the free ride indefinitely.

My point here is, if either of you have assets coming into the marriage, and your partner is concerned that yours are protected, chances are you don't have much to worry about. If however your partner makes a major deal out of protecting his/her own assets- consider that an alarm bell.

Irish who picked a great husband!

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Quote this post and reply to it Post#16 @ 06-27-03 , 02:59 PM


I'm for it.

My hubby and I were only 19 and 22 when we married so we booth din't have a pot to piss in so it was not an issue.

I just think its smart. I have known many people who think are are marring Mr. or Mrs. wonderful and end up hating them in a terrible divorce - it happens. Why not have both of you protected? Maybe something alone the lines of anything that was yours before the marriage stays that way and anything after is 50/50 something like that I guess I never really thought about it.

I know a few men who will inherite very large sums of money I think the family money should be protected. If I happen to become rich in my lifetime and leave a ton of money to my children to only have them end up in divorce and there spouse get half my money I will be spinnin in my grave - I will not have worked hard all my life for that.

I think marriage is great but everyone has to be practial.

I'll shut up now

PS I have heard some pre nup have a stipulation on how many time a week they must engage in sex Don't let this get out or we all will be signing one

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Quote this post and reply to it Post#17 @ 06-27-03 , 03:00 PM


Irish you made me laugh about the bratty kid comment

Glad you have a great hubby

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Quote this post and reply to it Post#18 @ 06-27-03 , 06:37 PM


In some countries, pre nups are required, i.e. South Africa. My cousin, who is from SA married a girl from Australia and the pre nup caused some very heated moments. I am torn, although it seems like a matter of distrust, I do understand why one might want one to protect family money or assets. Although we would all like to think the men we marry will always be the loving people they are today, sometimes people change and do things that you would never expect. (I am writing this and praying my fiancee is not one of those people!

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Mandated Sex??
Quote this post and reply to it Post#19 @ 06-27-03 , 06:41 PM


Musthave,

I cannot believe that can be included in a pre nup, that ridiculous! And I had a chuckle over your comment, we would all have to sign one! too funny!

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Quote this post and reply to it Post#20 @ 06-27-03 , 08:46 PM


Quote:
Originally posted by Musthave
I'm for it.

I know a few men who will inherite very large sums of money I think the family money should be protected. If I happen to become rich in my lifetime and leave a ton of money to my children to only have them end up in divorce and there spouse get half my money I will be spinnin in my grave - I will not have worked hard all my life for that.


The reverse may be true as well and the woman comes from money. In my opinion in either scenario, you are marrying into each others families... that includes the good, the bad, the poor and the rich.
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Quote this post and reply to it Post#21 @ 06-28-03 , 09:36 AM


Quote:
Originally posted by 3forMe
The reverse may be true as well and the woman comes from money.


HEHE your right I just personally don't know any, but I do know a lot of men lookin for a sugar mama

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Quote this post and reply to it Post#22 @ 06-30-03 , 03:45 PM


Well the assets are very one sided with him having a house, cars, 401K, savings etc etc. I am divorced and have a daughter already and he's a banker so I understand his need to protect what he has........I just want to make sure and protect myself too. I mean what if something happens to him.

I wanted some insight on what other people thought because I said something and my father went nuts. He's extremely traditional and conservative religious.

I'm just not comfortable talking with him about the pre-nup although I trust him and love him dearly. I will be having my lawyer look over it carefully before I sign anything. He has had a few couples he knows fight over finances so I don't really blame him. I just wish that part is over with so we could get on with our lives and marriage

Thanks everyone, I wanted to hear all different kinds of views!!

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Good luck
Quote this post and reply to it Post#23 @ 06-30-03 , 04:28 PM


As you see by the replies you've gotten, none of the "for it" replies feel like this is a marriage ending in divorce waiting to happen. I'm sure there is some separation between pre-nup entitlement and death benefits. If not, be sure you address your concerns with your attorney and you might want to try talking to your FH about growing old together and wills.

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Quote this post and reply to it Post#24 @ 06-30-03 , 10:59 PM


Marriahlyn, I hate to bring up old problems, but is this the same guy you had so much trouble with a few months ago? Did you get that resolved?

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Quote this post and reply to it Post#25 @ 06-30-03 , 11:11 PM


You know Memphis, I was wondering the same thing.

If so, marriahlyn, have ya'll gone to (pre-marital/just get on the same page about money, kids, life, goals, etc.) counseling? Maybe that would be more helpful to you both than a pre-nup. Either way, best of luck to you both!

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