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Old CarmenTN
 
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Hand that almost rocked my cradle, help.
Quote this post and reply to it Post#1 @ 03-20-03 , 10:11 PM


This is heavy and I'm in turmoil.

Two yrs ago we thought we had found the most wonderful babysitter, ever, a dream come true, a good friend of mine from high school's wife kept children, she was the perfect mother.

Unfortunately she also suffers from Borderline Personality, and has a different side. She always told me that I had the perfect husband, kids, life, I had a dream life. I also have an 8yr old who has an anxiety disorder that hadn't been diagnosed, she thought she could fix her, we didn't know until it was too late. AS we all got closer, she started telling us bizarre things. Her hubby had beat her constantly, she had police reports and pics. at the local hospital. She told us her parents had neglected her as a child. I checked our local police records and had a friend check at the hosp, no truth in it, it started a chain reaction of alot of lies she had told. She stole 6k from our children's school, and had been caught doing things like this before, we found out later. Anyway, after finding out that my 7 yr old was being told that mommy's career was more important to me than my kids, and only she could love her, we cut her off cold turkey, she stalked us is the only word I can describe. She would go to school and take pics of my daughter at functions and leave them on my doorstep. She left gifts constantly, we had to threaten her with a restraining order before she would stop. Anyway, the past year we have learned alot and it has been scary. Her husband has finally decided to divorce her.
Last week at work I got a call from a friend who said she ran into an old friend who, during catching up, told her that she had the most wonderful nanny in the world, and did she know her, well,guess who. Well, my friend said that she gave her my number and assured her that the stories she had been told of her personal life was not true, I get a call and sure enough she has moved on to another family to stalk, I felt the need to tell her what I knew, like I wish someone had done for me. She went home that day an fired her immediately. She never mentioned my name.
Here's my dilemma.
Throughout all of this, we have remained close to her husband, he's suffered years of abuse from her, and covered for her, he is still paying for everything she has, and she still has him believing she works 5 days a week and was really only working two. I feel I owe it to him to tell him that this is still happening and she is still lying about the abuse, and taking him to the cleaners. I feel like I need to since I believed her in the beginning too, but we are rid of her and do not want anything rekindled, my child just got released to PRN counseling and is still on paxil. I saw him this weekend and couldn't even look at him, he's working two jobs to let her stay in their home and he lives in an apartment.I feel guilty. So should I tell him, or not?

Last edited by CarmenTN : 03-20-03 at 10:15 PM.
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Quote this post and reply to it Post#2 @ 03-20-03 , 10:21 PM


Without a doubt, yes. Especially since the original friendship was with him, not her.

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Quote this post and reply to it Post#3 @ 03-20-03 , 10:25 PM


You know he will confront her, he won't be able to help it, my fear is being be drug back in to all of this. I could have wrote a small novel with all of the **** she's done.

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Quote this post and reply to it Post#4 @ 03-20-03 , 10:45 PM


The right thing to do would be to reveal the truth, yet if you do, you may be opening a very big can of squirmy worms. You do need to protect yourself first. This is a dilemma that would perhaps need an opinion of someone with the wisdom of Solomon. Good luck to you. You are obviously a caring and sensitive person.

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Quote this post and reply to it Post#5 @ 03-20-03 , 10:55 PM


Oh gosh what a heartbreaking story. My first reaction is that you have to tell him. However.....with all that your family has been through, I have to say "let sleeping dogs lay". I know I would feel guilty for not telling the hubby but I would feel worse to have my kids dragged back into this mess. Protect the kids first! I've found that some people have huge denial problems. He probably doesn't see because he doesn't want to see. Just my $.02. I wish your family the best!


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Quote this post and reply to it Post#6 @ 03-21-03 , 01:21 AM


What a terrifying situation for you to have been in! As a former nanny, I know exactly how much power they have and what damage a psycho nanny could do! They raise your children as much as you do. Man, Carmen! Hmmm...well, if he is still your friend, you have to tell him. As long as you don't fear for your family - or if you do, I would put precautions in place BEFORE you speak to him. Explain it all to the school, have them on guard, install a security system if you don't already have one (they are actually pretty cheap these days), and you could actually file that restraining order. I don't know if there's a statute situation for time, but it doesn't hurt to ask. You have to protect yourself and your family, but you can't even LOOK at your friend with all this stuff weighing on you. It's not good for you to be under that pressure.

Whatever you decide, good luck. And be safe! {{{hug}}}


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Quote this post and reply to it Post#7 @ 03-21-03 , 01:58 AM


ay ay ay, as Ricky Ricardo used to say.

I agree.
First, be safe- you and your family first.

Regarding denial-
there is none so blindf as he who will not see!

That's what my mom used to say.
If he is that blind or foolish, he won't be happy to hear what you have to say anyway.
He may even be upset thata you didn't tell him sooner- that is if he even believes you anyway.

Just stay safe and stay away from those people. You don't need that sh*t in your life and your kids sure don't.

Borderline personality is a serious disorder so try to disinvolve yourself with those people as much as you can as fast as you can.

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Quote this post and reply to it Post#8 @ 03-21-03 , 09:19 AM


You guys are so great. It's very hard to talk about b/c this only happens on tv. She is looking for the perfect life, her children suffer miserably if they bring home a B, or do anything less than perfect. She loses touch with reality when she gets in a home and family that she views as perfect. She stil tries to make contact with us on a regular basis. We went to counseling for months after this, we felt like terrible parents.

The school is aware of her, they were before this and she is never able to talk to Emilee by herself. Emilee still does not understand why she can't be around her anymore. We are installing a security system in our new home. It's very nice and I'm sure she wants to get in somehow, it's part of her fantasy.

As for her husband, I think he has realized that after 9 yrs, there will be no change. I have heard that there is virtually no cure for Borderline pers. The last straw was last fall when she was telling EVERYONE that he was leaving her and throwing her out and finally some friends saw him out alone and asked about it, and he was floored, he was out picking up dinner for the two of them, he had no idea, he was devastated, he had been taking her to a psychiatrist and thought she was making progress.

I'm going to look for some more responses from you guys and make my decision, I'll see him tomorrow hopefully and I need a clear conscience either way, I can't have guilt everytime I see him. I'm either going to let it go or let it out!

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Quote this post and reply to it Post#9 @ 03-21-03 , 09:43 AM


Oh Carmen I truly feel for you. IMHO I would suggest not saying anything to this friend of yours. It's best if you stay out of it lest you be drug back into it. It sounds like a good place to start detaching. People with personality disorders and addictions require enablers and it sounds to me like her husband is just that. Obviously this man is in denial and no matter what you say to him he's going to believe what his mind tells him to believe anyway. Otherwise, he would have detached from this woman a LONG time ago. Take care of yourself and your family right now and allow yourselves time to heal.

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There is no cure for Borderline Personality disorder
Quote this post and reply to it Post#10 @ 03-21-03 , 01:04 PM


this guy needs to dump that psycho and fast. BPD is an Axis II personality disorder, and all the Axis II disorders are very nasty, disruptive, and impossible to treat. (other Axis II: Narcissism, Histrionic, Antisocial, etc)

If you can somehow let him know and stay anonymous. i can't believe Child Protection isn't invovled with this case. The geographic cure is in order!!!! My first husband had Schizoid Personality disorder, and it nearly killed me. That's that Axis II stuff:they are fine: they drive their families to suicide!!

hope everything works out. wow.

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Quote this post and reply to it Post#11 @ 03-21-03 , 01:17 PM


This may be a long shot, but it's possible that this husband and wife have a "folie a deux" relationship.
This means that the two are kind of in a sick dance with each other, it's crazy and full of turmoil, yet each partner's psychological needs are met.
I used to live next door to a couple like this. They are now in their 70's and are still together. She is a mean, vindictive person who spends her life verbally abusing her husband and many people around her. I actually sold my house because of her. Yet, they present the image of "the perfect couple" to the outside world. They are pillars of the community who maintain a perfect home, do volunteer work, own a local bank, health club, vineyard and more.
Chances are that your friend is not quite in this situation, as it is rare, but I wonder how much he knows about his wife. If he is not completely stupid, he must know already what she really is like, and he must be suffering.

Last edited by Itbit : 03-21-03 at 01:20 PM.
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Quote this post and reply to it Post#12 @ 03-21-03 , 02:05 PM


CarmenTN,

Sounds like you have a difficult decision to make. While I do agree with the other posters that put the concern of YOUR family over your friends, I'm inclined to suggest you still find a way to let him know some thing. If this puts your family in danger, I woundn't do it. But I'm not quite sure how just talking to him would put your family in danger.

I would strongly suggest any serious discussion with him be as open and honest as possible. As well as brief. He COULD be just as sick as she is. If so, then your words will fall on deaf ears, but you have said your peace. Move on.

But what if he ISN'T. What if he is just TOO CLOSE to see. I've been in a bad situation myself (not quite as bad... I don't think...) and I was too close to see what my ex-husband was doing. (If that makes any sense.) Talking to others, outside my situation, gave me the PERSPECTIVE I needed. All that time, I thought I was being a good wife by always being suportive, etc, because that was the way I was raised. When really, I was being taken advantage of. Once the divorce was out, I heard so many encouraging things from folks that knew what was going on, but they didn't say anything BEFORE. It was only my close friends that really talked to me.

In the end, is is this guy that has to get himself out of his own bad situation. But to hear some support from some one else just may help him to realize it's not HIM that's the problem.

Again, once you have said what you want to say, move on. This crazy and dangerous woman has NO PLACE in your life, and neither will this man as long as he is associated with her.

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Quote this post and reply to it Post#13 @ 03-21-03 , 02:24 PM


let us know what you do since you will see him very soon

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Quote this post and reply to it Post#14 @ 03-21-03 , 02:53 PM


Carmen,

I believe that those who advised you to stay out of it, for the safety of you and your family, have advised you well. However, I still feel that since you maintain a close relationship with this friend, that it may be better to let him know, to clear your own uneasiness about the situation. I'm sure you have his best interest in mind, next to the safety and wellbeing of your own family's. Otherwise there may be other tempting moments to tell him, since you do maintain your friendship. If you do tell him, however, like debinsandiego has said, move on quickly thereafter, and do consider detaching yourself from the friendship should it fall on deaf ears.

Bottom line is that you have a tough choice to make. I believe that no matter which side of the view we are on, none of us envy the position you're in.

Best of luck with your decision. I'm sure you will think it clearly through before acting, one way or the other. Let us know how it turns out.

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Quote this post and reply to it Post#15 @ 03-21-03 , 06:08 PM


Carmen,

I wish I had some great advice to give you, but these situations are SO hard unless you know the person.

Go with your gut feeling, and let us know how it all turns out.

Thinking of you, and wishing I could help

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Quote this post and reply to it Post#16 @ 03-21-03 , 07:22 PM


Mars,

Please tell me more about this Axis II disorder. I've tried finding info on this so that I could better understand how they start the fixation. I could never figure out if it was me or my daughter or all of us. Also, I have told her over and over that we want nothing to do with her, so has my hubby, but she keeps trying to "come back". Her husband did say that after awhile, whatever thing she had done that was so bad, would be erased in her mind, like it went away. Is that a true depiction of this illness?

Her husband is a very sweet guy, he has always been a "nice" guy. But, I'm not convinced that he may be co-dependant, it makes sense. She had her first baby when she was 16, has never named the father, but she told me that when she met him, she got pregnant on purpose b/c she knew he would take care of the other child. She had known him a month. Well, he did and and they had been married for several months before she told him about her 2 yr old. Her Mom still has legal custody of her, but she has lived with them since that. They have separated several times over her antics, and yes, he at one point threatened suicide, I can't imagine. I am just hoping his strength is real this time to go ahead with a divorce.

It feels good to talk about it, my husband never wants to hear her name again.

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Quote this post and reply to it Post#17 @ 03-21-03 , 07:55 PM


Quote:
Originally posted by Itbit
This may be a long shot, but it's possible that this husband and wife have a "folie a deux" relationship.
This means that the two are kind of in a sick dance with each other, it's crazy and full of turmoil, yet each partner's psychological needs are met.
I used to live next door to a couple like this. They are now in their 70's and are still together. She is a mean, vindictive person who spends her life verbally abusing her husband and many people around her. I actually sold my house because of her. Yet, they present the image of "the perfect couple" to the outside world. They are pillars of the community who maintain a perfect home, do volunteer work, own a local bank, health club, vineyard and more.
Chances are that your friend is not quite in this situation, as it is rare, but I wonder how much he knows about his wife. If he is not completely stupid, he must know already what she really is like, and he must be suffering.



This reminds me of "Whose Afraid of Virginia Wolf?" I believe written by Edward Albee (sp?)
It was about a very disturbing relationship like you mentiond.

Horizon- be safe and well.

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