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Old Wacky
 
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Quote this post and reply to it Post#1 @ 10-01-00 , 11:22 AM


I found a 1.56 ct. AGS-000. VS-2, E color. The only inclusion mapped on the cert. is a fairly large feather on girdle edge. When talking about inclusions, are there some that are preferable to others, or are ther some to stay away from???ht: ble: nts: www.diamondgrading.com/askdiamondtalk.html" TARGET=_blank>http://www.diamondgrading.com/askdiamondtalk.html</A>

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Quote this post and reply to it Post#2 @ 10-01-00 , 11:42 AM


Wacky-

A feather/fracture at the girdle's edge is one to avoid if the feather reaches the surface or has a glassy or fuzzy appearance.

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Quote this post and reply to it Post#3 @ 10-01-00 , 01:45 PM


I was going by the cert. The cert showed a rather long line by the girdle indicating a feather. I had a hard time finding on the diamond. My concern was that was the only inclusion mapped on the cert., so I thought it must be pretty substantial to make it a VS-2. I thought I might be better off with a diamond with more minor inclusion. What do you think??

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Quote this post and reply to it Post#4 @ 10-01-00 , 02:48 PM


wacky -- where did you find this diamond?

if it's a place online can you give the url so we can all see what you are seeing?

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Quote this post and reply to it Post#5 @ 10-01-00 , 03:36 PM


I wish it was on line, so I could better explain it. I saw the diamond at a jewelers in Northhampton Ma. I just thought it was odd to only see one inclusion mapped on the cert.and have it be a VS-2. The owner said the length of the one inclusion gave it the vs-2 cert. The owner said all their diamond come from Keppie-kiger. That dosn't mean much to me.

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Quote this post and reply to it Post#6 @ 10-01-00 , 08:29 PM


Wacky,

Was the diamond you saw at Silverscape, or a different jeweler? Just curious
I'm not too far from there, and take my jewelry there all the time.

Cheers!
Jessica

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Quote this post and reply to it Post#7 @ 10-01-00 , 09:37 PM


Jessica,

It was at Sutters.

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Quote this post and reply to it Post#8 @ 10-01-00 , 10:11 PM


Wacky...

Just a thought, the drawing of the inclusion on the cert is not necessarily to scale. At a level like VS2 the inclusion is meant to be very slight and even if it is described as long, this is by gemological standards; in physical terms it is still very small and it's length may not be accurately reflected by the line on the plot.

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Quote this post and reply to it Post#9 @ 10-01-00 , 10:37 PM


So one inclusion depending on the size could make a diamond a VS-2??

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Quote this post and reply to it Post#10 @ 10-02-00 , 06:59 PM


Thanks for your help everyone!
I just talked to the owner of the store and he assured me that it was just a superficial feather not a large fracture type feather. Does that make sense? All I know is that the diamond is by far the nicest Ideal I've seen. I know I've only seen a handful of Ags000, but I do know in my short experience looking at them, they are not all created equal.


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Quote this post and reply to it Post#11 @ 10-02-00 , 07:18 PM


rock -- i dont know that it's fair to suggest that someone should automatically check out 8* or any other branded stone. it seems that they are very satisfied with what they have found so far and seem to have educated themselves of what is offered.

i know you're not pushing one brand or another or even for them to look and i think it's great to actually see everything that is out there but i'm sure you know of buyers' remorse. if they know what's out there and have chosen not to buy a branded, why have them look at it.

it seems that they know what they want in terms of size, cut, color, clarity, and even branded/non-branded. if you choose one and then go look at the 8* that is out of your budget you'll always have it in the back of your mind, "what if..."

i know you mean well but i think wacky has found a good stone and as long as that "superficial feather" doesnt turn out to be anything that will affect the performance or durability of the stone, will be quite happy with it.

maybe knocking down the size/color/clarity to get the 8* will be something for wacky or someone else but why throw that in after they've been educated by this forum and seem to be very happy with what they are currently looking at?

wacky -- if it turns out that the feather isnt that bad, go for it.

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Quote this post and reply to it Post#12 @ 10-02-00 , 07:20 PM


Rockdock,

I have not seen the other branded stones, but I would think 1.50ct VS-2 ,e color eight star would be above my budget. I had a dealer quote me a price for a similar branded hearts on fire diamond 26,000.00, but he said he would work with me a little...I don't think so!!! Does brand make that much of a difference, or is it a marketing thing.



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Quote this post and reply to it Post#13 @ 10-02-00 , 07:40 PM


wacky -- brands are mostly a marketing thing with maybe the exception of the 8*.

with brands you will be paying a pretty big premium for the name. each brand will bring to it their ideas of what should be looked at closer but you can find unbranded H&A that will be better than branded ones.

now with the 8* you will find a diamond that has perfect light return and will be (arguably) a perfectly cut diamond. of course with that you will be paying a HUGE premium.

i dont want to sound naive and act like you should just close your eyes and act like the brands such as 8* arent out there. but if you're happy with what you have found, dont worry about not being able to pay the 8* premium.

if you want, check out each of the brands but it looks like you've found a great one already. just dont worry about not being able to afford the 8* if you decide to check them out.

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Quote this post and reply to it Post#14 @ 10-02-00 , 07:49 PM


I would love to see an 8*, but there are no dealers close by. The dealers that post them on the Internet donít even post the price. I understand why you pay the premium, but for 2% more light return, is it worth it.

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Quote this post and reply to it Post#15 @ 10-02-00 , 08:36 PM


is it worth it? that's up to you. is it even 2% light return? i thought it was just under that but you may be right.

it all depends...for some, they absolutely, positively must have a diamond that has more light return than any other on the market and are have the $$$ to pay for it.

i, on the other hand, am a college student paying $30K/year. if my fiance was wearing an 8* it would either mean i am loaded (which i'm not) or dont have my priorities straight.

i figure you might as well get a great unbranded H&A if you want a well cut stone. use the extra money to do something for your fiance or for yourself. save it for your upcoming family. anyway, that's only my opinion and everyone is entitled to their own.

if you dont have a chance to see an 8* in person b/c there are no dealers, dont worry. i'm sure they're great stones, i havent seen them personally. i just know that with a budget like mine (or a budget period?) there's no way i can even consider an 8* so why would i bother.

the reason they dont post the price on the web when you see an 8* there? i guess you just have to see them in person and know that you want an 8* instead of being scared off by the price right away. who knows?

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Quote this post and reply to it Post#16 @ 10-02-00 , 10:10 PM


NDnewbie,

When discussing priorities and the cost of a diamond, who determines whose priorities, are right. I guess it depends how you look at it. People have no problem dumping $20,000 on a car, and in 5 short years itís worthless. Whatever happened to a diamond is forever.

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Quote this post and reply to it Post#17 @ 10-02-00 , 10:25 PM


I have assumed that no inclusion on a VS clarity diamond graded by a reputable lab (i.e. GIA or AGS) would compromise the integrity of the diamond. By definition, it must be invisible!! Therefore, I would have thought the simple answer to Wacky would be, no: there's no problem with any inclusion although one on the side is better as it can *also* be covered with a prong! Am I missing something?

I have an AGS 000 that's a VS and an F. It's larger than Wacky's and cost many thousands less than the eightstar he mentioned. Maybe $15,000 for a 1.67. It's *fabulous*. I would *never* pay another $11,000 to get an eightstar!

Uh oh. Deja vu!

AGBF

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Quote this post and reply to it Post#18 @ 10-02-00 , 10:30 PM


I hope you're not missing something, because that sounds simple enough to me. Thanks!!!

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Quote this post and reply to it Post#19 @ 10-02-00 , 10:43 PM


You're welcome, Wacky. Doublecheck what I am saying with Ice before you plunk down the cash. I have to tell you I am a licensed clinical social worker; former history teacher (and Ph.D. program dropout); and mother. I have never taken a gemology course and college geology was back in the Pleistocene era. That's a hefty disclaimer!!!

AGBF

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Quote this post and reply to it Post#20 @ 10-02-00 , 10:58 PM


AGBF,

Thanks for the disclaimer. I just keep shooting holes in every diamond I find. This angle was off by this much. One diamond is a little, shallow the next a little too deep. One girdle is a little too thin the next a little too thick. Iím only talking AGS000 too, thatís why I call myself wacky. I seem to be in pursuit of some mythical perfection. What if five years from now Iceman discovers through groundbreaking research, that AGS Ideals are not really ideal at all. ( thatís a compliment Ice)


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Quote this post and reply to it Post#21 @ 10-02-00 , 11:00 PM


wacky -- i'm not trying to say what your priorities should be. in fact i'm saying just the opposite. i'm just letting you know where mine are and let you decide where yours should be. if you have the cash and that's where you need to spend it, go for it.

i'm not here to preach to anyone where they should spend their money. whether it's spending extra $$ on a car, diamond, or education. wherever you find you should spend it, spend it (or save it).

i'm just saying that not everyone has to have an 8* but some do.

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Quote this post and reply to it Post#22 @ 10-02-00 , 11:08 PM


I whole-heartedly agreeÖ To each his own.

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Quote this post and reply to it Post#23 @ 10-02-00 , 11:09 PM


Wacky,

Have you read the Tradeshop's site? I hear that it keeps evolving, but when I was last there it had some great advice-very humorous-for guys like you who are obsessive about the perfect diamond. Apparently it is a male-only disease and affects engineering types more than others. Reading it might make you laugh and relax. If that's the way you're made, then that's the way you're made.

AGBF


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Quote this post and reply to it Post#24 @ 10-02-00 , 11:21 PM


AGBF,

I'll have to read it...I'm sure I fit right into that mold. Just tell me that is no such thing as the perfect diamond, and then I'll just use my head and buy a great one.

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Quote this post and reply to it Post#25 @ 10-02-00 , 11:30 PM


Wacky-

Unfortunately, Ray Elsey seems to have updated out some of the very funny stuff about anal/engineer types. Nonetheless, his discussion of VS1, VS2, and VVS may be useful to you. I hope it will be.
http://www.tradeshop.com/master/four_c.shtml

As to "the perfect diamond", how could there be one? Who was more beautiful at 18, Christie Brinkley, Brigitte Bardot, Elizabeth Taylor, or Vivian Leigh? Do you prefer Nordic blondes or chiselled featured brunettes with dark blue eyes?

Find a stone you love. Have you found the woman you love? If this is an engagement diamond, then I assume that you have. You'll know when you're happy


AGBF



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