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Old thingiespoo
 
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Quote this post and reply to it Post#1 @ 08-23-02 , 05:22 PM


I bought a stone that was represented as a tsavorite & I'm hoping it really is. How can I tell?

I posted about this in Gemstones (on this thread, which is more detailed: http://www.diamondring.com/forums/s...&threadid=19888). But no one ever goes there, so I thought I'd better ask here, too.

Thanks!

Gemstone Search:

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Quote this post and reply to it Post#2 @ 08-23-02 , 11:08 PM


By the tsavor?


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Quote this post and reply to it Post#3 @ 08-24-02 , 12:20 AM


Quote:
Originally posted by thingiespoo
I bought a stone that was represented as a tsavorite & I'm hoping it really is. How can I tell?


Hi Thingiespoo,

What Juan Van Graff was telling you above is that he does not know how to identify tsavorite.

However, unless you are a trained gemologist you cannot make this determination for yourself. Tsavorite garnet is a grossular variety of garnet in the CaAlSiO or calcium aluminum silicate family of this isomorphous replacement group. It is colored mainly by vanadium, which is also the element that gives Zambian emeralds their green color, and tanzanite their blue/purple colors.

Tsavorite garnet will have a refractive index that can range from 1.739 to 1.744. Although the stone is cubic in nature and single refractive, the RI can vary as the amount of the calcium that has replaced the magnesium can make the RI reading vary.

The specific gravity can also vary as a result of this same isomorphous replacement from a reading of approx. 3.57 to 3.65, according to the reference book GEMS by Robert Webster.

The best identification of true tsavorite will be made with the use of the spectroscope, with a characteristic absorption band due to the vanadium in the 610nm and 430nm areas. But you will need a fairly well trained gemologist to make this distinction as most US gemologists trained by the GIA will not have the experience level necessary to make this distinction on the spectroscope.

If I can be of service in making this identification for you please let me know. But you do, indeed, need someone experienced in the identification of tsavorite garnet to make a proper identification.

And Van Graff's: By the tsavor
will probably not get you very far.

Robert James FGA,GG
www.YourGemologist.com

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Quote this post and reply to it Post#4 @ 08-24-02 , 05:03 AM


Actually, YG, what Van Graff was telling Thingsiepoo was that he has a sense of humor and you don't.

Geneva

p.s. It really annoying to see this kind of petty insulting behavior. Give it a rest.

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Quote this post and reply to it Post#5 @ 08-24-02 , 07:06 AM


Geneva-there is plenty reasons for this... you might wanna review some earlier threads about "Van Graff"...
I agree on the issue with tsavorite with Robert, but I have to doubt the usefulness of a spectroscope... Below see two spectra recorded on a spectrophotometer; the upper trace represents chrome tourmaline, the lower tsavorite; I have also seen some green pastes which show similar spectra... Also the green YAG by Judith Osmer will show such a spectrum, with an additional chromium line at around 690nm.
So don't try to make a distinction yourself, it could be a costly attempt.

Thomas H.
http://www.gemlab.net

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Quote this post and reply to it Post#6 @ 08-24-02 , 10:53 AM


Good heavens! Sounds difficult. Can anyone recommend a gemologist in the New York City area with the necessary expertise?

By the way, I thought Juan's joke was pretty funny. A sort of cross-linguistic pun. Juan, would a real tsavorite taste like lime?

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RE: tsavorite authentication
Quote this post and reply to it Post#7 @ 08-24-02 , 11:29 AM


Two of the best gem labs are located right in NYC:

American Gemological Laboratory
580 5th Avenue, suite 706
NY, NY 10036

American Gem Trade Association (AGTA)
Gemological Testing Center
18 East 48th Street, suite 1002
NY NY 10017

Tsavorites are my favorite colored gemstone.

Chrome Tourmaline, is often a dead ringer.

If you decide to submit your stone to one of them for evaluation, good luck.

I hope you got a fine authentic stone.



Last edited by oldsalt : 08-24-02 at 11:36 AM.
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Quote this post and reply to it Post#8 @ 08-24-02 , 03:27 PM


Thomas,

Good point on the spectroscope issue. That needed some clarification. The spectroscope is a secondary test for verification of tsavorite. However, the other tests I posted would quickly eliminate the other gem materials you listed that could be confused with tsavorite on the spectroscope. I appreciate your input.

And Geneva, Thingiespoo was asking a serious question and looking for a serious answer. Juan's posting was sarcastic, in my opinion, to someone asking a legitimate gemological question.

Last edited by YourGemologist : 08-24-02 at 03:36 PM.
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Quote this post and reply to it Post#9 @ 08-24-02 , 11:47 PM


Make love, not war, my darlings!

Quote:
Originally posted by YourGemologist
...most US gemologists trained by the GIA will not have the experience level necessary to make this distinction on the spectroscope...


But...but...but...Robert! I made it a point to get very good at the spectrascope at school! People used to ask ME for help! Whaddaya mean I can't do it!?!


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Last edited by GemGoddess : 08-25-02 at 12:13 AM.
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P.S.
Quote this post and reply to it Post#10 @ 08-24-02 , 11:50 PM


I LOOOOOVE tsavorites too...one of my top 4 faves!


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Quote this post and reply to it Post#11 @ 08-25-02 , 12:11 AM


Lighten-up a little Robert.
Even thingiespoo thought it was funny.

Quote:
"By the way, I thought Juan's joke was pretty funny. A sort of cross-linguistic pun. Juan, would a real tsavorite taste like lime? "



Joker....

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Quote this post and reply to it Post#12 @ 08-25-02 , 12:54 AM


Quote:
Originally posted by YourGemologist

Hi Thingiespoo,

What Juan Van Graff was telling you above is that he does not know how to identify tsavorite.[/url]


Of course that I don't know, I have never seen a tsavorite in my life!!


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Quote this post and reply to it Post#13 @ 08-25-02 , 01:00 AM


Quote:
Originally posted by geneva123456789
Actually, YG, what Van Graff was telling Thingsiepoo was that he has a sense of humor and you don't.

Geneva

p.s. It really annoying to see this kind of petty insulting behavior. Give it a rest.


I am sorry for him, he must be very unhappy poor guy!


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Quote this post and reply to it Post#14 @ 08-25-02 , 12:07 PM


Quote:
Originally posted by GemGoddess
....But...but...but...Rob ert! I made it a point to get very good at the spectrascope at school! People used to ask ME for help! Whaddaya mean I can't do it!?!
How's Texas? I miss it. Sigh. 5 weeks and counting...


My dear Stephanie,

Never would I group you with ordinary GIA gemologists.

And remember, you can take the girl out of Texas, but you can never take the Texas out of the girl. Like I said before, We'll leave the light on for you.

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Quote this post and reply to it Post#15 @ 08-25-02 , 12:13 PM


Quote:
Originally posted by Van Graff


Of course that I don't know, I have never seen a tsavorite in my life!!


This was my whole point, Juan. And proves what we've been saying in the first place.

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Quote this post and reply to it Post#16 @ 08-25-02 , 12:25 PM




Sense of humor, sense of humor please!

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Quote this post and reply to it Post#17 @ 08-25-02 , 01:25 PM


thingiespoo,
If you are in the Midtown Manhattan area, pop into the 580 5th ave building. I'm currently finishing up a teaching contract with GIA and would gladly help you with your stone ID.
I'm teaching a night class in the lobby GIA classroom and will usually be there after 2:00 pm. If I am not there go up to the Third floor (room 300) to the main GIA campus and ask for Arthur.

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Quote this post and reply to it Post#18 @ 08-25-02 , 02:40 PM


Quote:
Originally posted by YourGemologist
...Never would I group you with ordinary GIA gemologists...


Awwww... (I'll bet you say that to all the girls...)


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Tsaver the moment!
Quote this post and reply to it Post#19 @ 08-25-02 , 04:03 PM


Regards to all...even those who chose not to "pun"ish a word!


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Dang it!
Quote this post and reply to it Post#20 @ 08-25-02 , 04:09 PM


Forgot the pic!...


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Quote this post and reply to it Post#21 @ 08-25-02 , 07:16 PM


Wow, that's pretty!

Arthur, I'll come look for you soon. Thanks!

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Quote this post and reply to it Post#22 @ 08-25-02 , 07:32 PM


I have a synthetic light-change alexandrite. It's made out of conundrum. Color change is not bad. It really carburetes.


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Quote this post and reply to it Post#23 @ 08-25-02 , 07:34 PM


Quote:
Originally posted by gin's mom


Sense of humor, sense of humor please!


Gin's Mom,

From the photographs I saw of her...your daughter is absolutely gorgeous. Did she get that from you? I bet she did.

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Quote this post and reply to it Post#24 @ 08-26-02 , 05:48 AM


Robert,
of course you are right, as soon as you know that a material is isotropic, it cant be chrome tourmaline, and as soon as you get R.I. and SG it cant be glass anymore. I once had a piece of jewellery in my lab though, with a heart shaped "chrome-green" stone in the center. The stones spectrum was of no help, R.I. was 1.74... SG determination was not possible, due to the setting... In the end, an FTIR spectrum identified the stone as glass... A tiny gas bubble was found, but had to be magnified to above 300x to be resolved properly...
So, especially set stones can be very difficult...

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Quote this post and reply to it Post#25 @ 08-26-02 , 05:49 AM


720x magnification... a gas bubble...

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