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Old jbbb
 
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duplicate diamonds on many sites....!!??
Quote this post and reply to it Post#1 @ 08-12-02 , 09:19 AM


Hello,

I recently found on Abazias a
1.1 carat
G, SI1, round diamond
60.6% depth, 56% table.

I did a search on pricescope with this info and it returned 6 diamonds with IDENTICAL specs!!! This includes polish, sym, cutlet, fluor, and dimensions!

My question is that it seems incredible that these are 6 separate diamonds, so why are 6 stores (afordable, icestore, USA cert, dirt cheap, jewelry zone) trying to sell the same stone ?

Who really has the stone!

-Jim

The above message was filled out via an online form located here

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Check the cert numbers
Quote this post and reply to it Post#2 @ 08-12-02 , 10:17 AM


Jbbb,

1) First, you could check the cert numbers to confirm if it is indeed the same stone at all six places.

2) And second, you have discovered a very common phenomenon within the diamond world. Different vendors selling the same thing! Isn't that neat?

I am new to this myself, but I believe that generally speaking, they are offering to sell you a stone that is kept at a central location (wholesaler, cutter, whatever) in order to minimize their overhead costs. A dealer carrying less inventory can offer lower prices, or focus on other aspects of the sale.

Some vendors find it advantagous to carry very little inventory. I believe if you make a request, they can get the diamond shipped in for you to see in person (highly recommended) with no cost to you.

If you aren't comfortable dealing with a vendor with little to no inventory, keep looking until you find someone with lots of stones on hand, or have the vendor bring in some specific stones for you to look at.

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Check this out:
Quote this post and reply to it Post#3 @ 08-12-02 , 11:08 AM


There can be problems when the person who actually owns the diamond is NOT the person you are buying the diamond from.
Check out this thread:
http://www.diamondring.com/forums/s...&threadid=16979
This sort of thing does not always happen, but it did in Kontos situation.
Joker....

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Quote this post and reply to it Post#4 @ 08-12-02 , 01:37 PM


Thanks for all the responses.

One reply though, if I have the sarin report (plus GIA) doesn`t that give all the details that I would need to judge a diamond ?

This seems a lot more scientific and cut and dry than
subject evaluations that I can 'see' with my eyes. Why would
I need to see the diamond ? Let me clarifiy that with saying
I have looked in stores at DEFGH colors and VVs2, VS2, SI1 stones
so I have ideas about how these look and compare.

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Quote this post and reply to it Post#5 @ 08-12-02 , 02:33 PM


I see your point about a fly-by-night internet site, but what about
established places like blue nile ?

I found a nice round stone at blue nile
AGS000, 1.12, F, SI1, 60.1% depth, 56.5% table, excellent pol/sym
for $6100.

Similar ones on pricescope are about $400 less at the internet-retailers which are more transient..., but I'd rather pay an extra $400 than get screwed!

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Another Perspective on the same old...
Quote this post and reply to it Post#6 @ 08-12-02 , 02:58 PM


Double post....see below

Last edited by Webz : 08-12-02 at 03:06 PM.
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Another Perspective on the same old...
Quote this post and reply to it Post#7 @ 08-12-02 , 03:05 PM


Well, let's take a look at the forces that motivate a B&M retailer to sell stock that he owns. Perhaps a diamond has been sitting in inventory for too long and so that vendor is specifically motivated to sell that diamond as turnover is of the utmost importance.
You won't get offered the cream of the crop, but rather whatever makes the most economic sense to try to sell to you.

Internet based vendors like IceStore (or any of the established vendors from Pricescope) don't have that concern. We determine what kind of qualities are important to each and every consumer, based on several long telephone conversations and then pick what to offer based on the aforementioned requirements. The best stone for each consumer. Additionally, because of the reduced overhead we can offer the same diamonds at much more reasonable, single digit margins. Moreover, we do not drop ship anything. We personally examine every single diamond that we sell before our consumers ever see it. Does that cost a little more for us? Yes. This is part of the service that we provide. And going back to the "own vs. resell" issue, if any particular diamond doesn't meet our expectations, we immediately let our customers know what's going on and find alternate diamonds.

So, bottom line is that we aren't going anywhere and if your hard earned money is best spent on a marketing plan like the "established" internet company that you mentioned then enjoy. If however you'd really like to get the most value from your online purchase, pay less attention to slander and more to the facts.

Quote:
Are you comfortable dealing with somebody that just woke up and is still in his pajamas ? When he could take your money and be out the door with his rent money also ?


Iceboy, you must've used that line about a thousand times already. If fear and intimidation are your only means of attaining clients.......

Sounds to me like the death cry of the dinosaur. Know what I mean?

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Quote this post and reply to it Post#8 @ 08-12-02 , 04:39 PM


Quote:
Originally posted by jbbb


I found a nice round stone at blue nile
AGS000, 1.12, F, SI1, 60.1% depth, 56.5% table, excellent pol/sym
for $6100.


I think one of us is a little confused. You say it is a AGS000 but you state the table as 56.5% and the polish and symmetry as excellent.

AGS reports the table as a whole percent, and they use excellent as their second grade. It should read Ideal/Ideal/Ideal to be a *so called 000* cut grade.

Sounds like a diamond that has a GIA report and a Sarin to go with it.

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Quote this post and reply to it Post#9 @ 08-12-02 , 05:19 PM


jbbb,

The numbers are not a perfect prediction of how a diamond will look. Not even with all the best reports out there, though the more you have, the better your chances are. Brands and their QA should also increase the chance of the diamond matching the bumbers.

For more reassurance, go with whatever vendor you like and do something like having it shipped to Dave Atlas. His company will verify that the diamond matches the certificate and confirm to you as YOUR agent that the diamond looks as expected compared to others of similar specs. Or not.

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Quote this post and reply to it Post#10 @ 08-12-02 , 05:27 PM


Steve-

you are right, this is a GIA + Sarin report.
(crown angle is 34 degrees, pav 40.8 degrees, depth 60.1%, table 56.5%).

so Iceman, if BlueNile is so far off then
what is a good price for such a stone and can you offer it ??

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hang on
Quote this post and reply to it Post#11 @ 08-12-02 , 05:32 PM


Where you come up with this stuff is really beyond me.
Leaving town? Who? You must be joking.

I am located in Beverly Hills, Los Angeles, one of the diamond centers of the United States and can examine any diamond here instantly as well as a huge stockpile of stones that never get listed. Those that aren't here are flown over for me overnight. Where are you again Mr. Big Shot?

You call them as you see them? Yes, I'm sure that you do but your perspective is so completely squewed as to be full of innuendoes and scare tactics that you think instill some confidence in you and your business while all you really do is to undermine the entire industry. What kind of mass mentality psychology to you ascribe to? Each company should indeed, as David Atlas suggessted, be examined on it's own merits. You on the other hand just group everyone into neat, albeit meaningless packages that you then feel that you have some understanding about. Ridiculous.

I have a novel idea, think before you write Mr. Cool.

Oh, and I'm really very impressed by your turnover....haha.
Last time we talked it was 6 carats a week, now it is in one day! Very impressive fantasy.

My last piece of advice, you will certainly reap what you sow so the next time Mr. Mouth gets a bit ahead of Mr. Brain, ask yourself,"Would I want my competition talking about me in a derogotory manner?" I know that this method of salesmanship is quite common with many of the DT vendors (I know because my clients tell me what wonderful things companies like WhiteFlash and USACerted have to say about all of the competition), but try to focus more on what your consumers really want instead of bashing and you'll probably get to the 6 carat/week mark.

I forgot to add, just the fact that you are so willing to go on a bashing spree to try to land a what, (fair price not BN prices) $5,400 sale is a testiment to itself.

So like I said, let me get a bigger shovel.

Last edited by Webz : 08-12-02 at 05:51 PM.
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Quote this post and reply to it Post#12 @ 08-12-02 , 05:44 PM


Oh dear, this conversation, while interesting, does not bode well for either practice of doing business from a customer listening to the fight. From a consumers point of view, I see both perpectives. It seems like neither of you give the customer any credit.....We are not all dumb.

Yes, it is only natural for a vendor who has a vested interest in a particlar item to want to sell that particular item. Yes, it is true that when you don't have any inventory you can gleen information and find a diamond to match a client...instead of a client to match a diamond. And, the lower the overhead - potentionally, the less the markup.

That said, as a consumer (and business women) it would indeed seem logical that if you, as a retail operation, purchase outright and often from your suppliers, you get preferential treatment. My prefered customers are always offered my choice goods first. Many items never even make it to market. So, it would make sense that perhaps your product is better. Also, for my inventory, if I were to put my money where my mouth is - I would only buy the best and at the best price....thus, passing that same quality/savings on to the client. And yes, many of the stones that I requested to see on the internet list were already sold.

As a consumer, I think it wise to explore both avenues to purchase. Both make sense. Bad experiences can happen both places. Good experiences can happen both places.

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??????
Quote this post and reply to it Post#13 @ 08-12-02 , 06:01 PM


Mr Webz:

"I know because my clients tell me what wonderful things companies like WhiteFlash and USACerted have to say about all of the competition"

Firstly, I don't remember one single customer EVER talking about your company to us - you are not on our list of competitors.

I can't speak for the latter quoted company, but we take GREAT offense to your implication that Whiteflash resorts to such lowly tactics. As a rule, we NEVER bash our competition. Our sales techniques are above that. We also seem to have a very professional relationship with our competition, as I am sure many of them would come forward and agree. Please retract your statement or give us some cold and hard fact here.

LesleyH
Director of Sales
www.whiteflash.com

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Quote this post and reply to it Post#14 @ 08-12-02 , 06:44 PM


Scenario:

Consumer Newbie asks question:

Diamond Seller 1 posts responce with a General analogy about aspects of the business.

Seller 2 chimes in and assumes Seller 1 is obviously directing his comments at him/her and rebutts based on their business.

Seller 1 : responds reiterating his/her position with a little more explanation. The One UP process begins.

Seller 2: One up X2

Consumer:?????

Welcome to DT. Sometimes I wonder how old people are around here. Such discussions I imagine only make new consumers NOT want to buy from you.

I agree with 43facets.

Both individuals have their points. I don't think ICEman was speaking about Webz business. But yes there are companies on the net that probably do fit ICEman's picture. There are many others that don't. So do your homework and find a place you feel comfortable with. Both internet and B&M stores have their own disadvantages/advantages.

Maybe we can stay on topic and help this guy out.

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Quote this post and reply to it Post#15 @ 08-12-02 , 07:10 PM


ok Leslie, I don't know if what my customer related to me was a fact either so please accept my retraction of any and all statements that implied that you or any employee of your company would resort to the types of sales techniques that I had mentioned.

Best Regards,

adreamer1st and 43facets:
Your postings are a fresh breath of reason. I'm also sure that Iceman didn't specifically mean IceStore but quite frankly I cannot in good conscience let such flagrantly general remarks, especially with all of the negativity involoved, go unanswered.

Last edited by Webz : 08-12-02 at 07:11 PM.
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Quote this post and reply to it Post#16 @ 08-12-02 , 09:23 PM


Quote:
Originally posted by jbbb
Steve-

you are right, this is a GIA + Sarin report.


Okay, now I feel better. I checked into that diamond at their web site and didn't find it listed. Maybe you bought it already

Bottom line, it should be a very nice diamond with the specs you posted. The price is good, and if that is your choice, Congrats!

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Quote this post and reply to it Post#17 @ 08-12-02 , 09:35 PM


Thanks for all the discussion.

So it seems that most of the stores on pricescope are buying diamonds
from the same wholesaler and then marking them within 100$ or so, plus
have some minimal stock in addition.

Lets get back to the consumer (that would be me), can anyone offer
me a better deal than the Blue Nile diamond I listed above ?
A SI1, F, 1.12 speced by sarin to AS0 ? Also, do not reply
"look at pricesope!", because without all the angles from a sarin report we might as well be comparing apples and oranges.
Even a newbie like me knows that the depth and table are only
half the story.

So, I've heard alot of people ruffling there feathers and flexing muscles around here but not much useful info for the consumer...


StevL- yes the diamond is on hold for me- blue nile will nicely
hold things for a couple days- no pressure.

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Quote this post and reply to it Post#18 @ 08-13-02 , 08:19 AM


Yes, the price is $6100 (actually 6101).

It is no longer on the blue nile website
(since it is on hold for me) but you can still find it on pricescope if you
input the dimensions I mentioned....

And, if you put all the angles into
HCA it gets excellent across the board.

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Quote this post and reply to it Post#19 @ 08-13-02 , 08:57 AM


Well if you look around Blue Nile a while you figure out that they price the
AGSL stones higher than the GIA.

Why, most probably because they can.
The AGSL has more info and so they can
push the limit on the price of these stones.

Until I asked for the sarin report
on the diamond I mentioned they had no
idea it is spec'ed to AGS000!

They do such a large volume that it appears they just price the GIA stones
on the info in that report alone and
some of them turn out to be great and
some are lemons....



If you look long enough you can even see
avergage changes in price for different polishes etc...it is all very systematic.

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Quote this post and reply to it Post#20 @ 08-13-02 , 08:58 AM


oh, yes i have both the GIA cert and the
serin report.

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Quote this post and reply to it Post#21 @ 08-13-02 , 09:32 AM


Hummm, well is has the following specs

Sarin:
crown angle 34'
pavil angle 40.8'
table 56.5%
total depth 60.1%
girdle: thin

fluor: none
excellent polish and symmetry (GIA)

don`t these specs make it fall in
a AGS000 ??

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Quote this post and reply to it Post#22 @ 08-13-02 , 10:06 AM


jbbb,

In my humble opinion I believe that is a little more difficult to get Ex/Ex from GIA than it is to get Id/Id from AGS. I do believe if you sent that diamond to AGS it would indeed come back a Cut Grade of O (000).

You have my interest in this one. What exactly does the GIA report show the dimensions to be and the depth and table? I see the Sarin info above.

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Quote this post and reply to it Post#23 @ 08-13-02 , 10:15 AM


GIA gives:

dimensions: 6.75x6.80 x 4.08
60.2 % depth
57% table

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Quote this post and reply to it Post#24 @ 08-13-02 , 10:35 AM


jbb, FYI, Blue Nile offers 5% commission to affiliated web sites for displaying their ads. In theory, that should make it possible for other vendors to undercut them - if they can buy at the same price as Blue Nile, that is.

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Quote this post and reply to it Post#25 @ 08-13-02 , 10:45 AM


Jamescd,
That is fine in principle....but in practice I want to see someone
offer me a better deal.

I posted the sarin report, gia info etc and I have yet to see
someone come back and offer me a better deal!
Also, plugging the info into HCA I get excellent all around scores
(0.7 total performance).

So, Iceman or Webz - can you do better ?
Please, don`t bother replying without the sarin info.

Alot of people around here like to trash Blue Nile- I want
to see some proof and not alot of strong words and BS to convince
me otherwise. I agree SOME of their stones are overpriced, but
this stone seems on the mark.

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