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| HOME : FORUM : EDUCATION : DIAMONDS : What is the world's most perfectly cut diamond? |
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Post#1 @
08-03-02
, 01:49 AM
There's a few brand of diamonds out there claiming to be the world's most prefectly cut diamond, such as hearts on fire, hearts and arrows, eight star, a cut above....and I'm sure there's plenty more that I've forgotten...what does everyone think about this? Who should have the rights to "brag" about their prefect hearts and arrows/fire burst in their diamond? Which diamond is really worth the money, and which is over priced? |
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Post#2 @
08-03-02
, 02:00 AM
Diamondgals, You have asked the proverbial $64,000.00 dollar question. If you get a definitive answer please let us all know. We have been asking that question for months.....no years...and cannot find anyone, vendor or consumer, who can provide a final answer. But this is a very good question. Should be interesting to see what kind of answers you get. 
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Post#3 @
08-03-02
, 02:03 AM
I'm just gonna start some microwave popcorn, grab a nice cold beer and sit back and watch the fireworks. This looks like its going to be quite entertaining. |
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Post#4 @
08-03-02
, 02:10 AM
The answer is easy--the world's most perfectly cut diamond is: A) Whatever diamond the vendor is trying to sell you or B) Whatever diamond the consumer bought for him/herself. Shelby 
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?????
Post#5 @
08-03-02
, 02:10 AM
I don't think that there is a definitive answer to this question since all of the "ideal" cuts are tradeoffs between the different visual attributes. I don't think one particular cut can beat the others in all performance catagories. The fact that there are so many differently cut diamonds that are called ideal, lends some credence to this. Each has its adherents, and rightfully so. |
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Post#6 @
08-03-02
, 02:18 AM
OldSalt, Think of this from a consumer's view. There are a lot of dealers out there claiming to have the ultimate cut. If I were a consumer I would be asking the same question. And just how do consumers determine which is the ultimate cut? I agree with you that there is no final answer. But this must be terribly confusing to some consumers. 
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Post#7 @
08-03-02
, 03:53 AM
Diamondgals, Your question is roughly equivalent to asking which flavor of ice cream is best. The ultimate answer is up to the person who is making the decision which to purchase. As with the flavors, there are different cutting approaches and styles in use which distinguish the best diamonds. Remembering that it is a matter of personal opinion, here are my own views. Others will differ in their views, so be prepared for varying answers. Personally, I consider EightStar to be the most attractive I've seen. They have also garnered considerable reputable support for their claim, not least working with the renowned AGS lab on new cut grading standards. EightStar is also the ancestor of all the hearts and arrows brands, originating that concept in Japan. They charge a price which is significantly higher than generic H&A brands but those who like their distinctive look seem happy to pay the price. Hearts on Fire seems to me mainly to get comments based on excellent cut but a price premium which is too high, often higher than EightStar, for a product which isn't that distinctive. I've never seen one, so I can't express a personal view on how good they look. SuperbCert and A Cut Above are both competing in the value for money excellent cut area and are very closely placed in cut quality and price. If the look of an EightStar doesn't catch your eye, either is a very worthy product to consider. If you were thinking of buying in a stereotypical mall store, buy either of these instead and you can be sure of getting a better overal deal. Maybe not the best possible deal but you'll get an accurately represented (in Cs terms) product with consistently excellent cut. You can't say either about the stereotypical mall store. Generic H&As or similar are also likely to be excellent but less consistently so and maybe without some of the fine tweaking of some of the brands. Up to you to examine some and consider whether the brands are delivering value which you think worth the extra cost. You can find excellent value here if you're willing to do more work. Generic non-H&As aren't the cut champions but they can also offer excellent options if the best in cut isn't your top priority. If you're after buying advice, see as many as you can and find out which take your fancy. Ultimately, the look you prefer is a matter of your personal taste. |
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Last edited by Jamesd : 08-03-02 at 03:55 AM.
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Post#8 @
08-03-02
, 08:56 AM
There are many most perfectly cut diamonds in the world just as there are many most beautiful women in the world. I think GIA agrees with this as well. That is why they haven't come up with an ideal cut yet at GIA Jan |
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Last edited by Jan : 08-03-02 at 09:09 AM.
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Post#9 @
08-03-02
, 09:27 AM
In an interview with a European actor, who was also known for his good taste in women, I once heard the following Q and A: Q: Can you describe the most beautiful woman in the world? A: Well, it is the woman that you are about to make love to. Food for thought, I would say. Paul |
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Post#10 @
08-03-02
, 11:41 AM
The thing about true beauty, ultimately, is that it is not at all about perfection. Some of the most enchanting women are definately SI's. Even the Navajo weave a slight imperfection in their blankets to honor the perfection that only exists in the One Spirit. Blake, (I color, VVS1, V.G., V.G. Sparkles like heck, though.) |
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Post#11 @
08-03-02
, 12:54 PM
The Smithsonian Institute has a one carat HOF (D, Flawless) on display as an example of the most perfectly cut diamond in the world. However, the true perfection lies in the eye of the beholder. Everyone's eyes perceive light return differently, and some people prefer different cuts of the same shape. In other words, the old european cuts, old miner cuts, transitional cuts, modern brilliants, HOF, 8*, etc., are all beautiful...but how a person perceives the cut as well as the light return from those cuts is what determines perfection. It's a very personal thing. My ideal diamond is a 3 carat old european cut...H-J in color and as long as it is SI1 or higher in clarity I'd be thrilled. |
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Post#12 @
08-03-02
, 03:56 PM
I agree with everybody here. Perfection is subjective, and in the eye of the beholder. |
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Post#13 @
08-03-02
, 06:48 PM
>>Q: Can you describe the most beautiful woman in the world? A: Well, it is the woman that you are about to make love to. << There is a lot of truth to this, so I have heard. Please make a note, therefore, not to ask me about beautiful women. All seriousness aside, the above posts indicate that there is no absolute answer. There is much dispute over what measures are the best in evaluating cut. I bought an EightStar and I am glad I did. For ME that was the right diamond. As they say, your mileage may vary. |
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Post#14 @
08-03-02
, 08:28 PM
Quote:
I think you should compare many of them in person and decide. What you like is your most perfectly cut diamond. |
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Well engineered car analogy
Post#15 @
08-03-02
, 09:24 PM
1) Well, I think you can tell from the posts thus far that this is a tough question to answer. I look at it with a car analogy. What is the world's best engineered sports car? Ferrari!!...no wait, Lambourghini. On second thought, I suppose Porsche makes the best. Come to think of it, Bentley, Jaguar, and Aston Martin all make incredibly advanced cars. Oh, and what about high end BMW's, Mercedes, and Lotus?! Well, they're all incredible vehicles, and I doubt anyone would be embarrased to own any of them. I think diamonds are a lot like this. There is no definitive "perfect cut" unless you first describe what would entail a "perfect cut" for you. And ultimately, what you describe as the requisites for perfection, may be quite different than what I believe them to be. I think the best you can do is find a seller you feel good working with, find a stone that seems amazing to you, and go ahead and plunk down your money. 2) I think every vendor should have the right to brag about their diamonds...ultimately, the consumer does have to show some awareness of what they are buying, and do the research accordingly. 3) Trying to figure out value of any type of stone is the same unending argument as the first part...whatever the stone is worth to you is how valuable it is. The bottom line is that consumers dictate worth with their wallets. |
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Post#16 @
08-03-02
, 10:23 PM
Quote:
So true, Shelby. So true.
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Hearts on Fire
Post#17 @
08-04-02
, 01:07 AM
I'm actually thinking of purchasing a hearts on fire diamond, that's why I posted this question. Seems like it sparkles like crazy...but the thing is it is quite costly. The sales people also tell me that hearts on fire appears larger then it's size by the way it's cut. I guess my biggest struggle is: is the diamond really worth what I might be spending? For those whom have seen a hearts on fire, please give me some input. Thanks |
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Post#18 @
08-04-02
, 01:14 AM
Here's my two cents: Forget Hearts on Fire. They are nothing more than your typical branded hearts & arrows ideal cut stones. Not to say they're bad, but trust me you can EASILY find the same exact thing for MUCH cheaper than what they're asking. I was told once they wanted $6,000 for a .90ct stone and nearly $8,000 for a 1.05ct stone. They're crazy for what they're charging. There are countless other vendors who carry such stones for much cheaper than HoF. Here's my advice: Use the HoF's as reference stones to get an idea of what size/color/clarity you're looking for, but buy elsewhere. Or you could avoid them altogether if there's any other vendor in your area who carries H&A's, though it's unlikely. Good luck! |
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Post#19 @
08-04-02
, 02:29 AM
diamondgals, Best I can suggest is that you look at some super-ideals and see whether you prefer any of them. If you find that you don't notice much difference between those two and a super-ideal (not a regular ideal, super-ideal) then you'll be confident that you can buy the less costly super-ideal or maybe even a regular ideal and save the extra cost. Regrettably, what you can notice and which look you'll like best is really only something you can tell after looking for yourself. It is safe to say that the sort of branded and unbranded super-ideals commonly talked about here will look better than typical mall goods but that's not what you're trying to compare to if you're contemplating HoF. http://www.ags.org/ is a site where you can search for nearby AGS jewelers and that's one way to find jewelers who are likely to have better cut diamonds. You can also usefully ask some of the vendors commonly mentioned here and/or post your approximate location (city and state) and invite vendors to contact you if they are close enough for you to visit in person and take a look. I have seen posts from people here who are happy with their HoF purchases, so it's clearly a cut which is preferred by some, enough to pay the price premium. I just can't tell whether you will be one of those or someone who will find a better balance elsewhere. I can say that if you've examined them, and EighStar and some other super-ideals, you'll be in a good position to know that you've made the best choice for your own tastes. The vendor is correct that the cut will cause the HoF to appear larger than a typical generic ideal cut diamond. Unfortunately, that doesn't help you. It's also true for all super-ideals and you might want to review how EightStar tweaks their cut to get the edge to edge illumination which is part of their look, something most super-ideals don't do. I don't know if HoF try to do the same thing or not. When you are comparing these, you should be aware that very bright store lighting tends to mask the differences between the cuts, making less good cuts look better than they will in more normal lighting. You should examine the diamonds in a variety of lighting conditions, including low or candlelight level lighting, to see which looks best to you in a variety of situations. Sorry, but for someone considering HoF the only way to know if it is worth the price premium to you is for you to compare it to other excellently cut diamonds and form your own opinion. |
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Post#20 @
08-04-02
, 03:16 AM
I've only seen the Hearts on Fire and I like it a lot. I have not seen the other branded diamonds (in person) which also claim to have the hearts and arrows...but from prictures I think Hearts and Fire has a bolder fire then the others. I do agree that it's a bit pricy. I agree hat the fire and brillance is definatly there...but I'm routing more for their new dream cut, I love that cut. I hear only 24 people in the world knows how to cut it, and AGS is going to use it as the standard for an ideal square cut. Is that true? And has anyone else seen it? |
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Post#21 @
08-04-02
, 02:58 PM
Just a consumers point of view... dating myself - but back in the stone ages before all the HOF, 8*, and anyone else's perfectly cut stones - there was Lazare Kaplan. These stones knocked me out compared to what I had been seeing. But, come to find out what I was reacting to as our astute jeweler pointed out was the cut. He found a well cut stone and, at the end of the day, I could not tell the difference EXCEPT in price. If you don't trust your eye, or want a branded stone that does assume some level of quality, then go for it. If not, then purchase a very well cut stone and same money. JMHO |
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Post#22 @
08-04-02
, 03:38 PM
If you're considering a HoF make sure you get all the angles and do some research to see how well it's actually cut. I was considering getting one as well and when I started to learn more I realized they aren't cut as *consistently* well as you may think. I've found stones on their site that have scored very badly on the HCA (2 and above). I've also found stones that really seemed to have a small diameter in relation to their carat weight. The one I saw in person was pretty - but my SC is just as pretty (easily) for 2/3rds the price. (and for carat weight my SC had a wider diameter than comparable HoF). Don't fall prey to marketing - do your research. |
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Post#23 @
08-05-02
, 07:38 AM
Domino, That's a good description of the sorts of differences which can be found and why it's not really possible to say which will look best to any individual person. |
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RE : What is the world's most perfectly cut diamond?
Post#24 @
09-06-02
, 06:54 PM
"optical perfection"??? what does that MEAN??? whatever cut best provides what YOU want from the diamond...THAT is the "perfect" cut. if you prefer an emphasis on transparency, and a more understated elegance, or at least an equal balance between this and brilliance, than the cut that maximizes brilliance will be the worst cut...optical IMperfection. if you prefer the "spready" appearance that increases the sense of size, or you just don't like the look of small tables, then diamonds with relatively smaller tables will be optically imperfect. there's no such thing as perfect cut that is not conditioned on the individual's personal goal in regards to the appearance of the diamond. the INDIVIDUAL's goal in terms of appearance determines what is "perfect", optically or otherwise. those of you who insist on reducing the issue of diamond cut to one of theorectical light leakage are willfully ignoring the obvious...different strokes for different folks. |
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RE : What is the world's most perfectly cut diamond?
this is a 2.4 ct vintage pear shape, H VS1. 39% depth!!! it has plenty of brilliance, fire, and scintillation. other cuts will have NOTICEABLY more brilliance etc. does that make this one less appealing? to some people yes, to others, just the opposite. some prefer mirror balls, others prefer a tiffany lamp. this diamond has an elegant beauty, yet by some cut "grading" systems, this would be classsified as poor. THAT is either a deceitful travesty, or just plain stupid! |
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