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Old oldsalt
 
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Quote this post and reply to it Post#1 @ 06-09-02 , 09:49 AM


If you buy a Superbcert, you can join the "Club" started by Barry and post pictures on his company website, where members all "bask in each others mutual satisfaction with their purchases" !!!!

I stand corrected. There are significant advantages to purchasing branded stones.

Even the likes of Harry Winston, Tiffany's, Bulgari, Cartier, and such don't offer such a wonderful reason to do business with them!

Just imagine, the owner of an absolutely perfect 2 million dollar diamond from Harry Winston doesn't qualify to join Barry's exclusive "club".

I guess I was wrong about the advantages inherent to brands like superbcert after all.

P.T. Barnum would be proud.

[Edited by oldsalt on 06-09-02 at 09:53 AM]

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Quote this post and reply to it Post#2 @ 06-09-02 , 09:57 AM



OLDSALT ,

The 6th "C" - CLUB .


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Quote this post and reply to it Post#3 @ 06-09-02 , 10:25 AM


I don't know why someone would join a club when they could join a family instead :.

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Quote this post and reply to it Post#4 @ 06-09-02 , 10:26 AM


oldsalt-
the superbcert club is cute...it's like that very exclusive jeep club where you can only go on their off-road trips if you have a jeep. and maybe one day the superbcert club will take a field trip to see where superbcerts are cut, or something.
we have the van graff club, and those are for simulants. it's fun to be in clubs based on things that you love.
nobody is really like 'hmmm, i want to pay a premium for a diamond just so i can be in a club', it's not nice that you make fun of it. the members i'm sure are very proud of their engagement diamonds, with good reason because they are quite beautiful for sure.
by the way, i've been meaning to tell you, your name rocks. it's so awesome. i know it probably has to do with your sailing hobby, but it paints such a picture for me. you could very well be some young hot stud...but your name makes me think of a grumpy old man with a cigar in his mouth. i love it! the things you say totally remind me of my dad, he would say the same things if he knew anything about diamonds...i think that's why i picture you as a grumpy old man, like him.

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Quote this post and reply to it Post#5 @ 06-09-02 , 10:30 AM


by the way, i just reread my post. if you are a young hot stud, i hope you're not offended. what i was trying to say is that you sound very 'wise'...like a grumpy old man. i don't agree with alot that you say b/c i think you can be a little mean...but i also totally like you for some reason.
and also, i have to mention, i am jealous of the superbcert club, and i wish i was a member.

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Condensed version of buttercups post
Quote this post and reply to it Post#6 @ 06-09-02 , 11:33 AM


Oldsalt, You are a sarcastic weinee, unless you're cute.

--------------
What I have to say on the topic:

Bah, A diamond is a diamond if all things about that diamond are exactly the same, but the wonderful thing about capitalism is if you had 2 diamonds exactly the same, and one was 'branded' by a recognizable name, a vender selling to an end user can charge and demand a mark-up for the 'peace of mind' or inherent 'brag value' that such a stone has, (which with the ladies on DT I am sure you have seen both)

The significant advantage to buying a branded diamond is only for the uneducated or the materialistic, AND/OR generally those that feel it is important to have some indication that someone has laid their credibility on the line behind what they are selling you, and it must be exactly what they say it is, therefore you can trust it. I have been around for while now, and looked into buying diamonds, I choose to deal with barry if I buy simply because his work exceeds most of the others whether they are branded or not, and his mark-up is not as high. Believe me, it isn't the name he brands them with that was important to me, only the quality that his brand stands for. (I personally don't like the name he is branded under, sounds a little 'wishy-washy' to me)

To most of us, we pay a premium for the assurance of quality, which if you wear anything that polo, ralph lauren, nike, whatever, have also fallen victim too, I would put money that everything you own is not no-name brand...

Condensed version of my post:
Oldsalt, you're being a wienee. You're light sarcasm comes across more like bitterness.

- I may have sold my soul...

~ Faust ~



[Edited by Faust on 06-09-02 at 11:38 AM]

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Ice.
Quote this post and reply to it Post#7 @ 06-09-02 , 11:54 AM


Thanks, and I don't think oldsalt is a weinee either, but he was IMO acting like one. (weinee, in this case is my way of saying he is being harsh about something that has more than one view to consider, and more than one reason behind those views)

Personally, I enjoy oldsalt's posts as well, but I'll be damned (wait, nm that ;-p) if I will let him belittle others choice to wear something branded.

Let me try and make an analogy, that I hope some of the 'white guys' on here can relate too, or at least comprehend... When I was younger, I was what could be construed as a 'player' but it was painfully obvious that most of the girls I met were not 'girlfriend' or 'bring home to mom' type women, so I had to start looking in different places for 'quality' women, that may have had more of the qualities I looked for, I wanted loyalty, commitment, passion, femininity, grace etc. etc. - where do I start looking? hmm, someplace that that is part of the culture, - the rest of the story I will omit, but suffice it to say, I am married to a lovely asian woman now, the people in the west will understand that I hope, I was looking for qualities that were more easily found in a certain place, narrowing my search as it were, to find what I was looking for - now back to the point.

If you have 8 million diamonds on the earth that are in your carot range, where do you begin looking for the 'perfect one' the search is daunting, unless, you know what you want, and you narrow your search down considerably, then you tap a resource that you trust to help you chose or find the perfect diamond in that 'pool of resources' or better said, you go see someone that ONLY cuts diamonds that meet your minimal requirements, and you find what you want, That alone is worth a premium to me.

~ Faust


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Dear Buttercup,
Quote this post and reply to it Post#8 @ 06-09-02 , 11:59 AM


If only I WERE a young hot stud!!!

Alas; I guess I am more of a grumpy middle aged stud. I'm not trying to be mean, I just get a kick out of the ridiculous lengths this Barry guy goes to promote his "brand" of diamonds, and I am just poking fun at his off the wall marketing practices.

I particularly dislike how his self promotion on this board can make a wonderful young lady such as yourself, wish for something that is soooo shallow and irrelevent, as to own any particlular brand of what is in fact, only a diamond.

While you personally, are too smart to buy one of his stones just to belong to his silly "club" where members can can "bask in each others mutual satisfaction of their purchases", he is hoping that there are buyers out there who are indeed shallower than a frying pan, and WILL make a purchasing decision based on this silly nonsense so they can feel superior to others.

I've been buying fine diamonds for many years and I have never before heard such shameless "Barnum-esque" hype.

If Barry can promote his diamonds on this forum in this utterly ridiculous manner, others can certainly poke fun at him as well.

Bt the way, a funny story, and there is a moral in it.

Although I am personnally wealthy, my fiancee is not and works in an office.

I bought her a 2.75 carat, D VVs1 ,GIA class 1 cut round brilliant diamond (unbranded, of course) and she selected a stunning custom made platinum setting with two .5 carat bar set brillants and 4 tapered baguettes of similar quality.

She wore it to work and NOBODY made a comment. NOBODY!

The next day she asked one of her co-workersw if she liked her ring. The co- worker told her it was "cute"!

That evening my fabulous lady asked me how anybody could think such an incredible ring is "cute".

Here's what I told her:

Because the stones are so perfect, large, and colorless, and they most likely have never seen a ring like it, I'll bet your friends at the office think it is a CZ that you bought for yourself, and not an engagement ring!

I was right.

When she told them it was real, they all went crazy over it and held an office engagement party for her.

There is a moral here and I know you are smart enough to figure it out!

Regards

[Edited by oldsalt on 06-09-02 at 12:19 PM]

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Quote this post and reply to it Post#9 @ 06-09-02 , 12:28 PM


Oldsalt, the more of your posts I read consistently bashing Superbcert (how many now, 5-6 threads???), the more I realize that you just don't listen and don't understand. You're way too deep into your own points of trying to prove something against SuperbCert that you just don't see the light.

I *can* see your points on branded stones that have a *high* markup over others...such as Tiffany, Hearts on Fire, etc. I totally see your points on these.

However, with SuperbCert the markup is minimal compared to non-branded stones. This has been stated several times by multiple posters! I think it's time to get off the trumpet already! We know your opinion, and I find it extremely rude to come in here and bash SuperbCert, a company that has excellent customer service, excellent values, provides ALL the info right up front that you would ever need, and whether you like it or not does have a good brand name going and people buy from them because of the assured value! It's slightly more than a non-branded H&A stone, and will people continue to pay slightly more? YES and any way you look at it you are still getting a very good deal by purchasing a SuperbCert. It might not be the *best* deal on the planet, but it's worth it to spend a few bucks more for the assurred value of a SuperbCert - ESPECIALLY when buying over the net. When buying over the net it's much harder to tell what is a good deal, and you usually can't see the diamond before you purchase. Chalk up another reason to go with a brand name stone that is guaranteed for quality. It's becoming apparent to me that you just don't listen to other people's postings that disagree with you and you have something personal going on with SuperbCert.

[Edited by Domino on 06-09-02 at 12:34 PM]

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Quote this post and reply to it Post#10 @ 06-09-02 , 12:38 PM


I have nothing "personal going on with Superbcert", I'm just using this board to speak my mind.

By the way, I think you are the perfect candidate for membership in the "club".

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I love analogies
Quote this post and reply to it Post#11 @ 06-09-02 , 12:48 PM


Excellent analogy Faust! And if people like oldsalt want to look in crowded bars during happy hour to find their ideal mate, that's OK too .

Domino, well said. I tried saying something of the same effect a couple of times!

Buttercup:
>>and also, i have to mention, i am jealous of the superbcert club, and i wish i was a member.<<
methinks this is something you have in common with oldsalt!

And finally oldsalt:
I don't think you are a grumpy old man (or middle aged man) but the quintessential engineer. Loves to debate, sees mostly their own point of view, conveniently lets slide aspects of the discussion that do not support that view.

Maria
former engineer (or some would say, once an engineer....)

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Oldsalt - Domino
Quote this post and reply to it Post#12 @ 06-09-02 , 12:50 PM


Domino, that my friend was Oldsalt's less then tactful way of calling you a sucker...

tisk tisk, someone took cap'n highliners fish sticks away from him apparently ;P

Oldsalt, if it isn't personal, how do you justify your concentration on only barry's practices? since I know from being here that other venders actually solicit business through PM's, and have ads, subtle campaigns etc running through each and every post they make? Let's not target just one individual if your beef is with marketing and capitalism ok?

Suffice it to say, you have the knowledge to make an educated decision and have no need of a brand to assist you in making your buying decision, AND that those consumers that buy solely on the brand name and not quality are shallow, and without depth, AND that the venders on DT see this as an opportunity to display their unique ability at the same time they help educate the public, converting that knowledge into a greater market for themselves based on quality, and service.

All fact's of life, none of which should prompt the apparent vehemence being directed at barry.

now who on DT use to say...
"Live long and prosper..." seems more appropriate then my tag line atm.

~ Faust ~

[Edited by Faust on 06-09-02 at 12:55 PM]

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Quote this post and reply to it Post#13 @ 06-09-02 , 12:58 PM


I will join the club, and be damn proud that I did knowing that I have one of the best cut stones on the planet - any way you look at it!

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Quote this post and reply to it Post#14 @ 06-09-02 , 01:21 PM


Heck, I don't have a problem with both laughing at the hype and buying the product. I mean, the circus itself is "Barnum-esque" but they also put on a good show .

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Oh for Gawd's Sake!
Quote this post and reply to it Post#15 @ 06-09-02 , 01:36 PM


OldSalt: Get a Life.

First, Barry did not create the club...another member of DT suggested it. Barry simply facilitated something that a few Superbcert owners asked for. Hey and whats wrong with him having a place for Superbcerts to boast about their purchases? It's called testimonials, and look around...it's common practice for retailers to use testimonials for their products.

Second, I resent the fact that you are making fun of Superbcert owners. I promise you that not one of us bought a Superbcert to belong to a "club". What the heck do I have to gain by being in the club? Nothing. It was just a fun idea. Get over it.

Third, you want to know why I have a superbcert? Go search on Pricescope. Look at the brilliance scope results for superbcerts. That is why. They ARE beautiful diamonds. Can you find nonbranded diamonds that are beautiful? Sure, but don't presume to tell me my fiance could have gotten a better deal by going with unbranded. You DO NOT live where we live. Do me a favor, come down to Champaign IL, and look around in our stores. Find me a diamond that looks like mine for as little as my fiance paid for it. You can't, cause believe me honey we looked. Where I live, you'll pay twice as much for a piece of crap.

Fourth, you're right no one will ever know it is a Superbcert unless I tell them, or let them look at it with a loop. You know what though? Who will ever know (unless its an I clarity and a K color or less) the Specs on my diamond unless I tell them. But you know what? WHO THE HECK CARES?? All that matters is that my diamond is Gorgeous! I've had it for 2 days and I have gotten many compliments on it. You know what? I will boast that it is a SuperbCert, because they are beautiful diamonds, for a good price. Hey, I am agreeing with you that we shouldn't have to buy branded to get a great stone...but the sad fact is that alot of places don't even know what the cut of their diamonds are. Do me a favor: check out http://www.ultimatewedding.com Look at some of the engagment rings on there, then tell me that my fiance didn't do ok buying a Superbcert.

I am sick and tired of your uncalled for comments. Get a life. You have nothing to gain by making fun of Superbcert owners. That was mean and rude. Hey, we'd all like to be like you and get D VVS1 2+ rocks unbranded for a great price. Unfortunately, the average consumer, does not have the money nor the time to search high and low for that deal. No one is debating that you can find good deals on unbranded stones. I think quite a few retailers on here have pointed it out. Unfortunately, in my area you go into a store and ask for a GIA certified diamond and they think you are nuts. If my fiance was going to buy over the net, I think he did a DAMN GOOD job. Most online retailers give you little more than the GIA or AGS specs. But buying a Superbcert he 'knew' what he was going to get: a gorgeous diamond. And he did. For a damn good price that rivals anything I've seen out there.

I'll join with Domino. I'll proudly join the club! My diamond is the prettist thing I've seen. And I've had my share of engagement ring shopping experiences.

You, are just a person who has nothing better to do than to make fun of people. You are rude and mean. No one is making fun of your diamond purchase. I could say a few things about it. But why try to harm your feelings about something that is so important and special to alot of people? That is just rude!

[Edited by Jaxie on 06-09-02 at 01:41 PM]


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Quote this post and reply to it Post#16 @ 06-09-02 , 02:14 PM


Wow Jaxie, the most powerful words yet!

I just don't get it why it's impossible for oldsalt to see the light on this one. I can totally see his points if you're looking at a huge margin of price difference. But SuperbCert has competitively priced their stones and the slight markup is worth it without a doubt.

Quick comparison:
1.00 Carat G VS2 UNBRANDED H&A Grade 1A cut: $7007
http://www.goodoldgold.com/1_00ct_g_vs2_h&a.htm

1.06 Carat G VS2 BRANDED H&A SUPERBCERT 1A cut: $6874:
http://search.virtcert.com/cgi/u/10..._fs=1&prestock=

What was your point again? A LARGER stone branded Superbcert for cheaper than an equal unbranded....you do the math!

[Edited by Domino on 06-09-02 at 02:21 PM]

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Quote this post and reply to it Post#17 @ 06-09-02 , 02:27 PM


IN ADDITION:

1.00 G VS2 UNBRANDED scored a 0.9 on the HCA, the 1.06 G VS2 BRANDED SuperbCert scored 0.7 on the HCA, a better score, for a bigger stone, with the benefits of the brand, for less money (and it looked like the brilliancescope was higher on the SuperbCert as well)!

This was the FIRST example I saw out there...I hardly even had to look to find an equal comparison...

[Edited by Domino on 06-09-02 at 02:31 PM]

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Quote this post and reply to it Post#18 @ 06-09-02 , 02:38 PM


To quote Jack Nicholson;
You want the truth... You can't handle the truth!

The truth is: With few exceptions, even more reasonably priced branded diamonds such as Superbcert command a significant premium over an equivalent non-branded diamond. If the extra time and effort to find an equally beautiful non-branded diamond is not worth it to you, then buy branded... it's that simple.

My understanding of OldSalt's posts is that he is simply stating the fact that you can save money and end up with an equally beautiful diamond. That fact is indisputable. The only argument is whether the time and effort to look for the unbranded diamond is worth it to you.

I find it refreshing that Oldsalt is giving us educated, intelligent and well written reasons to consider the alternatives. Consumers should have this information so they can make up their own mind.

As for the accusaions of him being rude, take another look at the posts. He is not the one that has degraded this thread to name-calling. Oh well, I guess this is all part of the DT newbie hazing period.

As far as Barry's marketing goes, I think he leaves the door wide open. If I have to hear "Bring your Sunglasses" one more time, I'm going to barf.

Hang in there OldSalt... This consumer is enjoying your posts.

[Edited by Adamas2 on 06-09-02 at 02:40 PM]

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Quote this post and reply to it Post#19 @ 06-09-02 , 03:04 PM


<The truth is: With few exceptions, even more reasonably priced branded diamonds such as Superbcert command a significant premium over an equivalent non-branded diamond. If the extra time and effort to find an equally beautiful non-branded diamond is not worth it to you, then buy branded... it's that simple.

My understanding of OldSalt's posts is that he is simply stating the fact that you can save money and end up with an equally beautiful diamond. That fact is indisputable. The only argument is whether the time and effort to look for the unbranded diamond is worth it to you. >

NOBODY DISPUTES THIS!

But this:

<If you buy a Superbcert, you can join the "Club" started by Barry and post pictures on his company website, where members all "bask in each others mutual satisfaction with their purchases" !!!!

I stand corrected. There are significant advantages to purchasing branded stones.

Even the likes of Harry Winston, Tiffany's, Bulgari, Cartier, and such don't offer such a wonderful reason to do business with them!

Just imagine, the owner of an absolutely perfect 2 million dollar diamond from Harry Winston doesn't qualify to join Barry's exclusive "club".

I guess I was wrong about the advantages inherent to brands like superbcert after all.

P.T. Barnum would be proud.>

Was a rude, uninformed and an uncalled for post to make fun of Barry and SuperbCert owners. It was not a post debating branded vs. unbranded. It was not meant as a legitimate argument. It was a low blow taken at Superbcerts and it WAS rude. I take offense to it. Hey I'm all for open debates, but when I read a post like that... it burns me. OldSalt's comment was a sarcastic mean post meant make fun of Barry and Superbcert owners. Yes, he has every right to state his opinion on branded stones, but that was not the way to do it. I take extreme offense to his comments and I'll be damned if I sit by and let him belittle my engagement ring.



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Quote this post and reply to it Post#20 @ 06-09-02 , 03:16 PM


Let's look at some MORE examples...

A quick search on pricescope (by cut quality):

.5 G VS2 UNBRANDED $1615 WHITEFLASH
.5 G VS2 SUPERBCERT $1646 USACERTED
.5 G VS2 UNBRANDED $1895 NICEICE

.55 G VS1 SUPERBCERT $2053 USACERTED
.55 G VS1 UNBRANDED $2060 NICEICE

.60 G VS1 UNBRANDED $2250 NICEICE
.61 G VS1 SUPERBCERT $2277 USACERTED

1.0 G VS2 UNBRANDED $7007 GOG
1.06 G VS2 SUPERBCERT $6874 GOG

1.06 G VVS2 SUPERBCERT $7901 USACERTED
1.08 G VVS2 UNBRANDED $7911 WHITEFLASH

Just a few quick examples... Where's this huge price savings that you guys preach of? I'm sure you CAN find a better deal...is it worth the trouble to save a FEW DOLLARS and NOT have the backing of a reputable brand name? Absolutely not...

[Edited by Domino on 06-09-02 at 03:26 PM]

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Quote this post and reply to it Post#21 @ 06-09-02 , 04:02 PM


It is foolish for men to cleave to ideas even in the face of contradictory evidence, but who said that men are never foolish?

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Quote this post and reply to it Post#22 @ 06-09-02 , 06:48 PM


I want to add my opinion (I am no where near an expert on diamonds, just an outsider looking in) on the topic of branded vs. unbranded. Branded diamonds are there for those who know nothing about diamonds. Just like when I bought my last car. I know nothing about engines or brakes or transmissions. Because of that I bought a BRAND - a very expensive brand because I trust their reputation for quality. Does that mean I won't get a lemon? Of course not - every brand has defective merchandise. I was willing to pay extra for my vehicle to get the brand - but for all I know it could be technically the same as a vehicle 1/3 of its price. I don't care. I am happy with my purchase.

I believe the diamond industry shelters the public from educational information on their product. They control the supply and demand and ultimately the price. They never inform the public about their product. Do you ever see commercials or print ads in magazines informing consumers of the ideal cuts of diamonds or why one particiular diamond is better than another? No. All you ever see are ads to BUY diamonds - whatever the trend is at the moment (ie: 3 stone rings, line bracelets). They don't educate the consumer to look for a cut - they leave that up to the jewelry store and we all know how well-informed those salespeople are. So, to me, in that case, for those who don't or who choose not to get informed, a brand helps them purchase a diamond and get something of value, even if that value is piece of mind.

I believe there is a huge market for branded items for the misinformed - which we all know does not include you oldminer.

Does this make any sense to you?


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Quote this post and reply to it Post#23 @ 06-09-02 , 06:49 PM


I mean oldsalt, not oldminer, SORRY.


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Quote this post and reply to it Post#24 @ 06-09-02 , 09:11 PM


Thanks for clarifying Jonathon - I didn't know if the "blind" search engine prices were credit card prices or bank wire prices...(it didn't say). Still though, the difference in price is minimal.

And to the point of the SuperbCert being "ONLY" for the uneducated, I disagree with this. I thoroughly and frantically searched for a stone for 6 months. I read everything on Jonathon's website, pricescope, several other websites, talked with dozens of people in the internet community and at local B&M stores. After going in circles for 6 months and questioning whether "Vendor A" really had a better deal than "Vendor B", all things considered, and the last minute "bargains" that would always appear when I was ready to buy (happend 4-5 times), I finally made up my mind to avoid the confusion and go with a SuperbCert and fell comfortable knowing that I had a solid brand name to back it up. I wasn't 'uneducated', I learned a whole lot from my research, and I still bought a SuperbCert in my situation and got a great value.

[Edited by Domino on 06-09-02 at 09:32 PM]

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LIGHTEN UP
Quote this post and reply to it Post#25 @ 06-09-02 , 09:33 PM


I was'nt poking fun at the purchasers of Sc stones, but rather what I believe to be silly marketing gimmicks.

In reality, I can't believe that any of you would be so shallow as to buy any diamond so that you could "bask in the mutual satisfaction of their purchasing decisions".

You probably got some really nice stones, but not, in my opinion, because of the brand, but because you bought them from honest, reputable dealers.

Some of you may well live in areas where a selection of fine stones is not available for your direct review, and for those of you, online purchasing is a valuable option.

I still say, that its the dealer you choose to buy from that offers you the greatest protection and is the best indicator of the value you will receive.

When a dealer promotes the services of an appraiser on his website, that however, raises a red flag in my opinion.

From many of the honest , truthful and some might say courageous comments posted by some of the diamond dealers on this board I have come to believe that you have several good ones to choose from.

I am poking fun at what I believe is ADVERTISING HYPERBOLE! Not you.

Adamas 2 said it best, "Barry left the door wide open".

By the way, in spite of any silly marketing
jive talk; never, ever wear sunglasses when shopping for a diamond.

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