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Old mdeleon
 
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Quote this post and reply to it Post#1 @ 06-04-02 , 02:34 PM


I've been looking around for some time now and now I'm starting to narrow down my search. I'm checking out superbcerts from usa certed diamonds and GoodOldGold. These are some of what I have found.

From Usacerted:
RB 1.01ct Color G Clarity VS1 about $6700 (SuperbCert)

GoodOldGold:
.9ct Color E Clarity VVS2 Cut H&A about $6700 also

Now a couple of things.. What if I want a setting to go with the diamond from USACerted? How does one go about this? I know goodoldgold will do the whole thing for me which is great too if I go with them.

And with the above prices, do they sound about right for their different specs? One is higher in Carat weight and a superbcert, but the others shine in clarity and color. Or are their other aspects that I should consider also when comparing the two diamonds? Should I try to linke BScope images etc?

Thanks for all your help,
Mike

Diamond Search:

Carat:  to  Color:  to  Clarity:  to  


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Quote this post and reply to it Post#2 @ 06-04-02 , 02:44 PM


Sight unseen, I think I would want to compare the b'scope ratings on the two. If they were identical, I would personally go for the 0.9carat one that's E and VVS2, just because color and clarity matter more to me. There's not much difference in appearance between 0.9 and 1.0 carats to me, at least.

But I don't think you can go to wrong with either of those -- they sound nice, and those two vendors seem great to work with!

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Quote this post and reply to it Post#3 @ 06-04-02 , 03:13 PM


Here's the Superbcert Bscope:
http://www.gemex.com/diamonds/cert....%3C%2Ffont%3 E

And the .9 H&A from Good old gold:
http://www.goodoldgold.com/images/Agape-Br90EVVS2.gif


hope this works..

Mike

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Quote this post and reply to it Post#4 @ 06-04-02 , 03:46 PM


I personally would go for the 1.01 ct. The b-scope readings are great and Superbcerts are generally very consistent in cut angles, etc.

The color/clarity on the 0.90 are excellent, but if you're going for a very clean and good valued diamond, you can't go wrong with a G VS1 (in fact the next time I purchase a stone, that'll be the exact grades I look for- you get the best value with these levels IMHO).

Martin's a great guy and can provide you some settings, but I would have him send it to you and you can then pick out your own jeweler and setting and have them set the diamond.

I purchased my stone from Martin and had it sent to rockdoc for verification. The I had rockdoc send it to a jeweler I found (through DT) so that he could make the ring and set the stone. Talk with the jeweler first to see if they are willing to set a diamond that they didn't sell- most are nice enough to do that (provided you buy the setting from them) but I hear that some can be rude about it.

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Quote this post and reply to it Post#5 @ 06-04-02 , 03:54 PM


I would go with the 1.01 Superbcert without a doubt if it was me. Why would you settle for a less that 1 carat non branded stone when you can get the 1 carat superbcert?

Both Martin and Jonathon are excellent and you should have no problems with either.

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Quote this post and reply to it Post#6 @ 06-04-02 , 04:00 PM


Do you think I can get the Superbcert on uscerted diamonds through Jonathan? Or would I have to purchase a diamond, have it shipped to Jonathan for the setting etc? Just getting confused with all the shipping that's involved. I'm not sure how close usacerteddiamonds and goodoldgold are in terms of working together so that's what I'm concerned about.

Mike

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SuperbCert all the way !!!
Quote this post and reply to it Post#7 @ 06-04-02 , 04:04 PM


mdeleon;


Both diamonds look like
great deals, but I consider the
SuperbCert to stand head and
shoulders above the other stone.

It carries the magic 1.01ct,
which most ladies might not want
to admit to it, but a 1.00ct diamond
is very symbolic...

I have also noticed the the brilliance
scope reports as well... It seem's perfectly obvious that the 1.01 has
a much more uniform light dispersion
in all its light views...

Also, the reputation of SuperbCert
is second to none...
Should this be a difficult decision,
I think not, since 80% of the diamonds
beauty is derived purely by cut...


B.A.

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Quote this post and reply to it Post#8 @ 06-04-02 , 04:11 PM


Quote:
mdeleon :
Do you think I can get the Superbcert on uscerted diamonds through Jonathan? Or would I have to purchase a diamond, have it shipped to Jonathan for the setting etc? Just getting confused with all the shipping that's involved. I'm not sure how close usacerteddiamonds and goodoldgold are in terms of working together so that's what I'm concerned about.

Mike


Tough situation- they both deal w/ the same cutter (barry). I believe that *should* have access to the same inventory, though either may have their own inventory of diamonds as well. May want to email Martin to see if he's worked w/ Jon before, and email Jon the same, and also ask if he's able to get that stone.

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Quote this post and reply to it Post#9 @ 06-04-02 , 04:14 PM


Battle Axe,

Are you affiliated with superb cert? You seem so familiar.

[Edited by lawmax on 06-04-02 at 04:15 PM]

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superbcert...
Quote this post and reply to it Post#10 @ 06-04-02 , 04:15 PM


neither jonathan or martin probably actually have the superbcert...barry (the cutter) probably has it.
if you want to get the setting from jonathan, you may as well just get the superbcert from him too...just so you don't have to worry about this shipping stuff.
there are two 1.01 G VS1s available...i didn't know which one you were looking at...both are $6777 from both jonathan and martin.
here are the listings from jonathan's database..so he has access to them also.

http://search.virtcert.com/cgi/u/10..._fs=1&prestock=
http://search.virtcert.com/cgi/u/10..._fs=1&prestock=



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Quote this post and reply to it Post#11 @ 06-04-02 , 04:17 PM


battle axe writes like barry...

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Quote this post and reply to it Post#12 @ 06-04-02 , 04:46 PM


I would definitely go with the .9 carat E vvs2 H&A from Jonathan. It's a rarer stone and in spite of its size is, in my opinion, more desireable and of much greater overall quality and value. Besides, from what I have learned by reading about the experiences of buyers, I believe that Jonathan is by far the more respected dealer of the two. I personally would not give my business to the Martin/Rockdoc duo. Additonally, Jonathan can do the whole job for you. I agree with Law Max, I smell something rancid in "Battle Axe's post! By the way, both stones are reasonable, not great, deals. But that's only my opinion. PS. I had to add this: a finely cut stone is a finely cut stone period! Don't fall for all that hype about branded stones. When comparing two stones of comparable cut, there is absolutely no reason to seek out a particular "brand". Professionals on the street laugh at this nonsense and it is a marketing ploy aimed only at the consumer! Never pass up a beautiful, highly graded stone because it doesn't carry a brand. Never.

[Edited by oldsalt on 06-04-02 at 04:57 PM]

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Quote this post and reply to it Post#13 @ 06-04-02 , 05:36 PM


I take a little offense to that oldsalt. I'm a THRILLED customer of Martin and just because rockdoc lied to i2002 on that diamond you would stay away from Martin? I'd stay away from rockdoc because of that, but Martin did all the right things and refunded his money, and even refunded rockdoc's fee from the sounds of it. That's going above and beyond anything I've ever heard on this board in terms of excellent customer service!

As I said before, BOTH Jonathon and Martin are excellent and you shouldn't have a problem with either of them. Both of them should be able to get you the same stone if it's in SuperbCert's inventory. I suggest the buyer do what he feels best and most comfortable with.

[Edited by Domino on 06-04-02 at 05:37 PM]

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Quote this post and reply to it Post#14 @ 06-04-02 , 05:42 PM


Lawmax and Buttercup,



Thanks for the commendable
comparison with barry's
writing skills, but I still can't
get over those typos...

It seem's like I'm trying to write
poetry, but nothing rhymes...

In any case, my name is Kirk Konst.
Some of you may remember my earlier
posts from U.S.A. Certed Diamonds...

Quite recently I decided it was time to
move on, spread my wings, and bid farewell to all the fine people I've worked with for almost 2 years, and now I can say to you all with confidence, that Martin Sheffield, and the staff, of usacerteddiamonds, are some of the most decent people I know,and they truly put the consumers need's first...

I have been truly blessed to work with
them, and many of you !

During my stay with Martin,
I was the fellow whom specialized in
SuperbCert, from it's beginings, and never has a finer diamond graced the fingers of many in love, and never have I heard a single consumer complaint...
The SuperbCert appeal is Flawless !!!

Finally, since I have been following the diamond talk chats for almost 2 years, I could not bare to leave the drama, so I decided to become an independent member,
a.k.a. Battle Axe...

Kindest Regards,
Kirk Konst


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Hi Kirk
Quote this post and reply to it Post#15 @ 06-04-02 , 05:44 PM


I'm glad you took the time to tell us who you are. Where are you working now?

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Quote this post and reply to it Post#16 @ 06-04-02 , 06:36 PM


Sorry if you've taken offense Domino but from the e mails I recieved from i2002 I drew a different conclusion as to how he was treated, and then there was the non disclosure agreement demanded by the party (not Rockdoc) who reimbursed him for the appraisal. Anyway the whole thread is now gone (I saved the emails though) removed to diamond talk heaven I guess. So is i2002 whose last post said he would'nt use the same dealer again. I still think that Battle Axe sounded like a booster. He sure does'nt sound objective to me. And for the life of me I can't see why YOU should take offense.

[Edited by oldsalt on 06-04-02 at 06:44 PM]

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My buddy OldNaCl:
Quote this post and reply to it Post#17 @ 06-04-02 , 07:35 PM


Wrong again
"Anyway the whole thread is now gone (I saved the emails though) removed to diamond talk heaven I guess."
Thread 16664 just got moved to Customer testimonials. That's where it should have been all along.
/honey
Joker....

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Quote this post and reply to it Post#18 @ 06-04-02 , 07:36 PM


Not gone... and surely not forgotten. GZ rarely, if ever, deletes threads. That's why we like him so.

http://www.diamondring.com/forums/s...ead.php?t=16664

...as to branding... here's the rub:

comparing two stones of comparable cut.

Many consumers are unwilling, unable, or simply don't care to do the legwork required. Enter brands. And the value implied by such monsters as Harry Winston, Cartier, and Tiffany's.

.PX.

Quote:
oldsalt :
Sorry if you've taken offense Domino but from the e mails I recieved from i2002 I drew a different conclusion as to how he was treated, and then there was the non disclosure agreement demanded by the party (not Rockdoc) who reimbursed him for the appraisal. Anyway the whole thread is now gone (I saved the emails though) removed to diamond talk heaven I guess. So is i2002 whose last post said he would'nt use the same dealer again. I still think that Battle Axe sounded like a booster. He sure does'nt sound objective to me. And for the life of me I can't see why YOU should take offense.

[Edited by oldsalt on 06-04-02 at 06:44 PM]



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Quote this post and reply to it Post#19 @ 06-04-02 , 08:05 PM


Lawmax;

Thank you for your kind words.
As for, what am I doing right now?
The best way to answer you is,
taking a well deserved break...
As for diamonds, well that will always
be one of my passions, I imagine that
I will persue this field in some capacity...
Working with Martin has taught me alot,
and the experience has been
invaluable...


oldsalt;

Have you ever heard the phrase,
" seasoned with salt "...
Without salt life would be to bland,
those are words to live by!
That is why my comments about
SuperbCert are the way they are...
It's what I truly believe in, and anyone whom believes in something truly, should stand behind it...

I know it's not "politically correct" of me
to favor one diamond, and one diamond only, but it's not without cause or reason that I favor SuperbCert...

Listening to the overwhelming consumer reviews about it for the past 2 years in terms of;

.beauty comparisons
.price comparisons
.brilliance scope comparisons
.HCA comparisons
.Mega scope comparisons
.Cert comparisons,
and so forth...

This has left me with an
indelible impression, and I agree with the consumer. The first time I saw a SuperbCert, I knew that my wife would be wearing one, and I'm not married !!!

Does this seem boastful, perhaps,
but atleast it symbalizes commitment,
and belief in something...

A little salty,? I suppose, but salt is good.


Cheers,

Kirk a.k.a. Battle Axe

[Edited by Battle Axe on 06-04-02 at 08:09 PM]

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Quote this post and reply to it Post#20 @ 06-04-02 , 08:06 PM


PX, Cartier, Tiffany and Winston imply that their mechandise is indeed branded as well ie: the Tiffany Diamond, the Cartier Diamond etc. and demand premium prices for that reason. By the way, besides, I've shopped them all at their 5th Avenue locations and all three of these emporiums offer some really average stones at sky high prices. I've shopped at Winston's and was shown a really mundane overall graded radiant. Not all of the stones offered at these places are top graded either. Tiffany quality starts at mid level as well. The same for Cartier. Most people believe that all the stones sold at these establishments are top, top quality in all grading catagoies as well. This is not true. They don't handle low quality stones though and their top quality stones can make you drool.

Battle Axe you can tell it kontos who got what I believe was a royal scr*wing when he tried to buy a superbcert. I know its not "politically correct" to find hype, sharking and shilling offensive and contrary to the good of the consumer, but I do.

[Edited by oldsalt on 06-04-02 at 08:21 PM]

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Quote this post and reply to it Post#21 @ 06-04-02 , 08:28 PM


Perhaps you misunderstood my point.

If two diamonds are otherwise identical, the branded stone is more valuable. (Assuming that the diamond is truly branded in the consumer's mind) Branding offers a guarantee of quality and consistency.

This is indisputable.

I am not implying that (unbranded) stones don't exist that outperform Tiffany's Lazare Kaplans at a fraction of the price. Or Harry. Or Van Cleef. Or any of the other behemoths...

.PX.


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Quote this post and reply to it Post#22 @ 06-04-02 , 09:13 PM


[QUOTE]PX :
[B]Perhaps you misunderstood my point.

If two diamonds are otherwise identical, the branded stone is more valuable. (Assuming that the diamond is truly branded in the consumer's mind) Branding offers a guarantee of quality and consistency.

This is indisputable.
************************* **
Sorry PX, but if the two stones are absolutely identical their value in the diamond trade is the same. There is no trade premium for brands, which explains Domino's experience with the appraiser. Diamonds are sorted, graded and priced accordingly. They are in reality, a commodity. Retail Consumers may become convinced, by certain dealers, to pay a premium for brands but that is another matter, and they are overpaying.

Regards,

Oldsalt



[Edited by oldsalt on 06-04-02 at 09:16 PM]

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Quote this post and reply to it Post#23 @ 06-04-02 , 11:29 PM


You still misunderstand my point.

Kindly explain to me how Tiffany's stays in business if their brand value doesn't confer a price premium on their product? If T&Co. diamonds are truly a commodity (the likes of any other diamond), they would be traded as such. Nobody would buy their product. The store would be empty. They would go bankrupt.

This is not the case.

How do Versace, Donna Karan, and Armani stay in business? If their products were just cloth not unlike the "Marts," they, too, would get clobbered by the invisible hand of capitalism. This, too, is not the case.

Why do generic prescription medicines cost less than branded medication?

Even pork bellies bow to the same force. Why does "store" bacon cost less than Oscar Meyer?

Why do companies spend billions of dollars on advertising? Public relations?

I would note: As I've previously alluded, the brand has to be valid in the consumer mind to have any value.

.PX.


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Quote this post and reply to it Post#24 @ 06-04-02 , 11:40 PM


This "overpayment" is called brand value.

Quote:
oldsalt :
Retail Consumers may become convinced, by certain dealers, to pay a premium for brands but that is another matter, and they are overpaying.



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Quote this post and reply to it Post#25 @ 06-04-02 , 11:57 PM


The brand value of Tiffany diamonds, Cartier diamonds , Winston diamonds etc. comes from WHERE they are purchased. You pay for the buying experience. If you put a loose Tiffany diamond etc. in a pile of other stones with EXACTLTY the same grades, the premium that the consumer paid for the privilige of shopping at Tiffany's would disapear. You are right, the premium is obviously worth it to the retail consumer who purchases the branded stone, or at these high end luxury stores, but in the diamond market, or if you want to sell it to a professional, you will not realize the premium. The premium for branded diamonds purchased online comes from a laser inscription with the brand name. Professionals disregard this issue when pricing stones in the diamond market. All they care about or consider is grading, rarity and demand. Branding of stones has not reached enough acceptance as to increase demand in the greater marketplace.Diamonds are almost always worth less than the retail customer spends for them, by the way. The supplier of one of the "top" end branded stones available online as well as in stores, recently cut their selling price by 35% in order to stay competitive. If you had purchased one of those how would you feel about the value of a brand? Diamonds are a commodity exactly like the pork bellies you mentioned. Designer clothes such as Donna Karan, Versace and Armani however, are not commodities. Cheap knockoffs of this apparal or fake rolex watches could be regarded as "simulants" are as to real stones.

[Edited by oldsalt on 06-05-02 at 12:13 AM]

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