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Old goldenswan
 
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Quote this post and reply to it Post#1 @ 01-10-02 , 04:56 PM


The jeweler told me that the price of Bellataire diamond is more expensive than natural diamond because they are only sold in Famous Jewelry Stores .

Are they 100% synthetic ?

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Quote this post and reply to it Post#2 @ 01-10-02 , 06:17 PM


Hi goldenswan,

I was shown a few Bellataire diamonds (some yellow and lime green ones to be more specific) at a store once. If I'm not mistaken, GE is the company that came up with the process to make these. I was told by the jeweler that they are real diamonds that have been enhanced (nuked or gone through some process to permanently give them that color).

However, I have heard from other people that although they say the color is permanent, there's no telling if the color could change if exposed to extreme heat, radiation, or other conditions. Not only that, but I heard that because they have gone through some kind of process, jewelers need to be more careful when setting and handling them because they are weaker than a natural diamond. I don't know if what I was told is completely factual, but in general I have been told on more than one occasion that any kind of diamond that has been enhanced needs to be handled more carefully when having it set, etc.

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Quote this post and reply to it Post#3 @ 01-10-02 , 07:10 PM


From what I understand Bellataire diamonds are natural diamonds (not synthetic or man-made) that have been color inhanced (from yellowish or brownish to white). Magazines catering richer readers have been running ads recently. There have been some past posts on this topic. You can use the search function to find them. There are so many options out there for us jewelry lovers

-Alistra

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Bellataire Diamonds
Quote this post and reply to it Post#4 @ 01-10-02 , 10:50 PM


This are mined natural diamonds, but this company uses a process that was patented by General Electric to enhance the color of the stones with Gamma rays, donīt be confused by the GE process to produce synthetic diamonds.
When a natural diamond atomic structure is missaligned in a random way it can produce the yellow or brown shades of color in the stone, the Gamma process straighten the atomic structure, that aligning the atoms restores the white crystal clear color of this natural diamonds.
They are not clarity enhanced, then they are not weaker than a untreated diamond, they are only color enhanced by Gamma radiation but they must be inspected by a qualified gemologist before you buy one of this diamonds.


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Quote this post and reply to it Post#5 @ 01-10-02 , 11:06 PM


so does that mean that if you expose your diamond to x-ray enough, it will turn whiter too? :P


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Quote this post and reply to it Post#6 @ 01-10-02 , 11:41 PM


Bellataire diamonds used to be known as GE-POL diamonds (General Electric - Pegasus Overseas Limited). This company was a joint venture with GE and Lazare Kaplan Diamonds. The process is a HPHT (high pressure high heat) treatment. The HPHT process is a combo of heat and pressure where a multi-ton press is used with high temperature heat to alter the color of a natural diamond. The process does re-align the atoms within the diamonds to change their affect on color. Only a few types of diamond accept this treatment, and this contributes to their expence.

GE is one of the main companies doing it. Nova tech out of Utah used to do it. GE and Lazare Kaplan (belatiare) comonly treat diamonds to get closer to colorless.

Nova Tech, when they were doing it, got "fancy colors" typically a neon green. The scientist at Nova Tech is the original GE scientist that discovered how to grow industrial grade diamonds in a laboratory in 1954 then later gem quality synthetic diamond in 1971.

If you do a search using "HPHT" you will find at least 28 matches. Those posts go into greater detail about which diamonds accept the treatment.

Have fun.


[Edited by ArthurMan on 01-10-02 at 10:42 PM]

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Quote this post and reply to it Post#7 @ 01-11-02 , 02:55 AM


ArthurMan
What is this scientists name? Is he still alive? Thanks for the info.

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Re: Bellataire Diamonds
Quote this post and reply to it Post#8 @ 01-11-02 , 01:08 PM


Quote:
Originally posted by Van Graff
This are mined natural diamonds, but this company uses a process that was patented by General Electric to enhance the color of the stones with Gamma rays, donīt be confused by the GE process to produce synthetic diamonds.


Juan..
You don't know what you are talking about Please stick to commenting on things you know about.

Bellataire is an HPHT process using type IIa or IaB brownie diamonds to get colorless and nitrogen containing Ia's (and maybe IB's) to get fancy yellow greens. Pinks and Blues can be generated from a limited subset of type II's


Marty

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Quote this post and reply to it Post#9 @ 01-11-02 , 01:21 PM


Quote:
Originally posted by ArthurMan
Nova Tech, when they were doing it, got "fancy colors" typically a neon green. The scientist at Nova Tech is the original GE scientist that discovered how to grow industrial grade diamonds in a laboratory in 1954 then later gem quality synthetic diamond in 1971.



Tracy Hall Sr is who you are talking about, and although I never had the pleasure of meeting him, I have been at the Novatek facility in Provo, Utah with David Hall and Tracy Hall Jr.

NovaDiamond can produce colorless diamonds from type IIa's and IaB's, and have done so. They used type Ia's to generate fancy greenish yellow. The process that Novatek uses takes about 2 minutes to complete and involves pressures and temperatures on the order of 60,000 athmospheres and 2000 degrees centigrade. I wear one of these stones (1.83 RBC fancy vivid green yellow) that I put in the press.. The other stone (1.5+ carats) a quarter of an inch away from mine turned to "dust". Mine survived.

Others in the industry besides General Electric, including Russian and Asian facilities have been playing with with similar process with like results. There has been a trickle of these stones, at this time, into the pipestrem, without proper disclosure..

My web site has some articles on the HPHT processing ... see http://www.gis.net/~adamas

Marty

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Re: Re: Bellataire Diamonds
Quote this post and reply to it Post#10 @ 01-11-02 , 10:06 PM


Quote:
Originally posted by adamasgem
Quote:
Originally posted by Van Graff
This are mined natural diamonds, but this company uses a process that was patented by General Electric to enhance the color of the stones with Gamma rays, donīt be confused by the GE process to produce synthetic diamonds.


Juan..
You don't know what you are talking about Please stick to commenting on things you know about.

Bellataire is an HPHT process using type IIa or IaB brownie diamonds to get colorless and nitrogen containing Ia's (and maybe IB's) to get fancy yellow greens. Pinks and Blues can be generated from a limited subset of type II's


Marty


Marty, donīt SPANK ME, this is a cut and paste of the info on the Bellataire Diamonds web page at http://www.bellatairediamonds.co m/index1.html and there you can see VERY CLEAR that the Bellataire Diamonds are ALL NATURAL DIAMONDS, anyway I sent an email to Charles A Meyer the Director of the company asking if their diamonds are ALL NATURAL OR SYNTHETIC and I will post here the answer, but from their web page the info is that they are ALL NATURAL and that means NO SYNTHETIC RIGHT?




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Re: Re: Re: Bellataire Diamonds
Quote this post and reply to it Post#11 @ 01-11-02 , 10:45 PM


Quote:
Originally posted by Van Graff
Quote:
Originally posted by adamasgem
Quote:
Originally posted by Van Graff
This are mined natural diamonds, but this company uses a process that was patented by General Electric to enhance the color of the stones with Gamma rays, donīt be confused by the GE process to produce synthetic diamonds.


Juan..
You don't know what you are talking about Please stick to commenting on things you know about.

Bellataire is an HPHT process using type IIa or IaB brownie diamonds to get colorless and nitrogen containing Ia's (and maybe IB's) to get fancy yellow greens. Pinks and Blues can be generated from a limited subset of type II's


Marty


Marty, donīt SPANK ME, this is a cut and paste of the info on the Bellataire Diamonds web page at http://www.bellatairediamonds.co m/index1.html and there you can see VERY CLEAR that the Bellataire Diamonds are ALL NATURAL DIAMONDS, anyway I sent an email to Charles A Meyer the Director of the company asking if their diamonds are ALL NATURAL OR SYNTHETIC and I will post here the answer, but from their web page the info is that they are ALL NATURAL and that means NO SYNTHETIC RIGHT?



Juan..

HPHT (High Pressure High Temperature) treatment of natural diamonds... NOT GAMMA IRRADIATION AS YOU STATE

THEY ARE NOT SYNTHETIC, although HPHT treatment post growth of synthetics are producing better color yellows.. pushiong out the typical brown of type Ib synthetics (all nitrogen containing synthetics to date, that I am aware of, are type Ib)

I'd love to see what you said to Chuck

Marty

PS: GE uses my SAS2000 to monitor the processing of their Belataire product, although they don't tell me didly squat what they are doing..




Marty

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Quote this post and reply to it Post#12 @ 01-11-02 , 11:40 PM


OK, I see my stupidity this stones are all natural diamonds treated by HPHT and not by Gamma, sorry I was wrong, ouch!! I promese not to post again without checking



[Edited by Van Graff on 01-11-02 at 10:42 PM]


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adamsjem
Quote this post and reply to it Post#13 @ 01-12-02 , 03:57 AM


did I understand yr posting right? there's been a trickel of "man-made" diamonds sold without proper disclosure, meaning that the true "natural" diamond that I may be purchasing, might be man made from one of these facilities you spoke of?

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Re: adamsjem
Quote this post and reply to it Post#14 @ 01-12-02 , 12:54 PM


Quote:
Originally posted by meiji
did I understand yr posting right? there's been a trickel of "man-made" diamonds sold without proper disclosure, meaning that the true "natural" diamond that I may be purchasing, might be man made from one of these facilities you spoke of?


Not man made, but natural stones with color improved and/or changed by HPHT processes, which can be difficult,`if not impossible to detect in some cases..

Marty

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Quote this post and reply to it Post#15 @ 01-12-02 , 04:08 PM


Marty a question,
If color correction has been proved to be sucessful by Gamma radiation why use the more risky HPHT process?


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Quote this post and reply to it Post#16 @ 01-12-02 , 06:24 PM


Juan, the impression I get (would like Marty's expert opinion) is that the HPHT process for Belltaire diamonds tends to (but apparently not always) result in colorless stones, not artificial colors like gamma radiation treatment would. If that's the case, I view it as a marketing thing and a neat way to make money...take some brownish stones not worth very much, turn them into colorless stones and cut them well, then sell them for just a little bit less than something that wasn't treated.

No thank you.

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natural is best
Quote this post and reply to it Post#17 @ 01-12-02 , 06:45 PM


To my opinion having a demantoid garnet is better than a diamond treated by the high pressure-high teperature process.

[Edited by farzadmahdavi on 01-12-02 at 05:52 PM]

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Quote this post and reply to it Post#18 @ 01-12-02 , 07:39 PM


Quote:
Originally posted by dogbert
Juan, the impression I get (would like Marty's expert opinion) is that the HPHT process for Belltaire diamonds tends to (but apparently not always) result in colorless stones, not artificial colors like gamma radiation treatment would. If that's the case, I view it as a marketing thing and a neat way to make money...take some brownish stones not worth very much, turn them into colorless stones and cut them well, then sell them for just a little bit less than something that wasn't treated.

No thank you.


Dogbert,

I read about a company that was doing experimentation with Gamma radiation making white color stones by aligning the atomic structure and I think that this process is far safer than the HPHT that makes axactly the same but the risk is not to get the desired color but that the stone resists the treatment.
I donīt know what is the looses rate with this process but can be considerable.

Synthetic diamonds and natural diamond treatments are two of the aereas in the trade with more development in the last decade.


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Quote this post and reply to it Post#19 @ 01-12-02 , 08:17 PM


Quote:
Originally posted by dogbert
Juan, the impression I get (would like Marty's expert opinion) is that the HPHT process for Belltaire diamonds tends to (but apparently not always) result in colorless stones, not artificial colors like gamma radiation treatment would. If that's the case, I view it as a marketing thing and a neat way to make money...take some brownish stones not worth very much, turn them into colorless stones and cut them well, then sell them for just a little bit less than something that wasn't treated.

No thank you.


Type IIa/b and IaB brownies will go toward colorless (with occational pink and blue winners) while Ia's will turn the greenish yellow/yellow green hue if the process "takes", otherwise it can result in dull olives...

The leverage treaters are working with in regard to colorless, is 5 to 10X..

Type Ia brownies can be turned to the vivid green yellows which WERE EXTREMELY RARE and big $$$$$ as naturals (if paper saying "natural" is correct)

There is nothing wrong with these treatments as long as they are DISCLOSED.. The market will decide what people are willing to pay..

Irradiated fancy colored diamonds have a long accepted market, giving the same as well as different colors that are found in nature.. and these are available at very reasonable prices compared to comparable naturals. They are diamonds!!! The same goes for the HPHT treated diamonds..

Marty


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Is not Marty arround here?
Quote this post and reply to it Post#20 @ 01-13-02 , 09:27 PM





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Re: Is not Marty arround here?
Quote this post and reply to it Post#21 @ 01-13-02 , 11:37 PM


Quote:
Originally posted by Van Graff


I love the gif Juan..





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Re: Bellataire diamonds
Quote this post and reply to it Post#22 @ 08-30-07 , 05:44 PM


Stores carrying these artificially treated stones should, without question, be very up front with their guests that they are treated. My roommate is a goldsmith (has been for seven years) and they can on occasion discolor when heated. What's worse, in princess and emerald shapes, he has heard of many setting problems with stones chipping more easily in the corners (so while GE, who stands to make the profit from these stones claims that the strength is not changed, his actual experience has said otherwise.)

Price is the other huge factor with these garbage stones being made to look so much better. They a mere fraction of the price and the treatment is not very expensive (my roommate had a Bellataire, that they weren't warned was a treated diamond, change to a yellowish brown on him and they had to replace the customer's diamond: he took a $2900 stone, GE charged him $273 with shipping and presto, $7100 "value" diamond for the customer).

I asked my roommate about these Belitaires since they seemed like such a good deal when I was buying my engagement ring and he said they were a much bigger rip off then buying a regular diamond plus the other headaches that may come up, he said to stay far away.

Last edited by SeekTruth : 08-30-07 at 05:45 PM.
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Re: Bellataire diamonds
Quote this post and reply to it Post#23 @ 08-30-07 , 06:57 PM


I'm learning here.... thank you!


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Seek Truth
Quote this post and reply to it Post#24 @ 09-02-07 , 05:35 PM


I don't know where you are getting your information but you are totally incorrect.
First Your friend said that HPHT processed stones that are heated can change color just with the application of heat. First any diamond will burn if you put enough heat on it. Sounds like your friend "salted" a diamond that was HPHT and then blamed the HPHT processing for his mistake. That is the easy way out. There is not been any research to support that they change color. In fact, all the research that I have seen from GIA and others is that they do not change at all other than what any diamond will do if a overzealous goldsmith leaves his torch on it.

Your next example of princess cuts and emerald cuts being more prone to breaking is absolutely the same type situation. Any diamond with a corner that could potentially follow cleavage plains is prone to damage if you hit it hard enough. Breakage experiements are not likely to be preformed and so proving this would be pretty much impossible.

FYI, Jade is tougher than diamond but diamond is harder than jade. Diamond has perfect cleavage plains.

I think that you are potentially confusing Yehuda diamonds with Bellataire or HPHT. When it comes to your roommates diamond. HPHT diamonds do not change. GIA will not issue full grading reports on diamonds that have the potential to change to a lesser color and then change back. Your roommates diamond changing could have been clarity enhanced. That is a process that can change and then be restored. HPHT or Bellataire diamonds have never been documented to change color back. And actually take it from me as I done extensive research on this subject it is physically impossible without doing harm to the diamond that any diamond would be damaged by.

Matt GG


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Re: Seek Truth
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Here's their video:




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