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Quote this post and reply to it Post#76 @ 12-02-00 , 04:41 PM


Garry...

From what i've seen of the firescope, many of the H&A's have a tendancy to leak light arond the outside upper girdle facets...Some less than others, but thats the weak spot for all of them..

Can you concur with this opinion?



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Quote this post and reply to it Post#77 @ 12-02-00 , 05:28 PM


<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>Originally posted by dimonbob:
NDnewbie
That center "blob" on our A Cut Above diamond also has a nice little pattern of its own. What you may see on our H&A photos may be part of the problem of taking those pictures I was referring to. When I was looking at a diamond for "AndyD" on Rhino's website, the problems with the H&A may have been partially due to photography. I wish all of our H&A patterns were up on the site but I really do not have the time to get them up there. I do most of my diamondtalk Q&A at home at night and the weekends. Right now I am on lunch break from my computer class. I have a computer in front of me so why not catch up with you'al. Howdy!
dimonbob www.whiteflash.com
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

just re-looked at the pics you posted of the actual H&As you have. looks like the ones posted on your site may have been due to photography or something as you said. yours appear to have a pretty nice 8* as well in the center. it looks a little like double vision giving it about 16 stars but it much closer to an 8* pattern than i have seen in any other H&A.

i dont know much about cutting but it would be interesting to figure out how you would get the double-vision-like 8* center as opposed to getting the perfect 8*. your H&As do look good i'd have to say.

i'd love to see some results of one under a firescope. is there anyone out there who bought A Cut Above diamond that sent it to rockdoc or anyone else to get it appraised and get pics under the firescope that would like to post them for us?

NDnewbie
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Quote this post and reply to it Post#78 @ 12-02-00 , 09:27 PM


<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>What is the crown/pavilion on your diamond???
I understand that Eightstar cuts the pavilions at 40.75 most of the time...is this accurate?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

brodway...

Sorry, don't have the crown/pav on my particular stone. I got it before EightStar obtained their Sarin machine. It's info I'm dying to know as well but I can't be bothered to unmount the stone and besides, I don't know anybody that has a Sarin in Malaysia.

As for the 40.75 pav angle - not all the time. A significant proportion follow that number, but there is a little variance.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>Johnny Boy
I will give that diamond the eyeball test on Monday morning when I get back to the office. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thanks dimonbob. Hear from you then.

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Quote this post and reply to it Post#79 @ 12-03-00 , 06:08 AM


But then mine is so far ahead of AGS which you all swear by - so dont give me the beta bull guys!


Garry...
You just dont stop


But thats whats going to make you famous one day...

Keep up the spirits...You will overcome!!!



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Quote this post and reply to it Post#80 @ 12-03-00 , 07:15 AM


Hey mate...

Did you see the fight tonight?

I came back from a party and cant seem to fall asleep...So im bumming around D-Talk...

Hope all is well with you.



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Quote this post and reply to it Post#81 @ 12-04-00 , 11:28 AM


Quote from Brad
"Sometimes I think some get to freaky on the pattern and start nitpicking little things
that have no effect on a diamonds light performance."
It does have an effect on the light performance but more importantly it has to do with the Quality of Workmanship. According to you if a diamond has three hearts,four arrows, five mishapen facets, six facets that don't point up and one off center culet but does give great light return then all those other things don't matter. Lets see, if I buy a new car that the windows don't roll up and there is a dent in the right door but the car runs great, should I not consider anything else?
Our customers are putting down good money for something that they will enjoy for the rest of their lives. Someone has sold them on how good the cut is because the diamond is the most beautiful they have seen. That cut includes Make and Proportions. If the stone has a sloppy make which is bad workmanship, it is not an Ideal cut diamond. If it is not an Ideal cut, it can't be a true hearts and arrows. If you think I am nitpicking, so be it. At least I can be proud of my A Cut Above diamonds and I know I am not pushing off 2nd quality diamonds off on an uneducated customer.
dimonbob www.whiteflash.com


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Quote this post and reply to it Post#82 @ 12-04-00 , 12:14 PM


Johnny Boy
The diamond,WF26806, that you requested information on is out on a 10 day inspection right now. IF it returns, I will check it out and let you know. Sorry about that. When I was sitting in class on Saturday, I hade no way of knowing if a stone was in stock or not.
dimonbob

[Edited by dimonbob on 12-04-2000.]

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Quote this post and reply to it Post#83 @ 12-04-00 , 09:28 PM


dimonbob...

Thanks for the update.

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Quote this post and reply to it Post#84 @ 12-05-00 , 12:00 AM


Jonathan..

I agree with you for the most part, but i dont understand this statement

"Precision in craftsmanship. While not all H&A diamonds perform the same, even the H&A with the weakest brilliancescope ratings will have beautiful craftsmanship. To cut the kind of precision that goes into an H&A diamond takes skill and talent. What I think is a waste is when all the skill and talent goes into an H&A that does not perform like it *should*."

Would you ever buy an ugly looking house that was built well?
Would you ever buy a an ugly car even though the engine and the parts were all great?
Would you ever date an ugly girl although she had good genes?

You gotta be one heck of a salesman to convince someone that something that is visually "inferior" is actually great...and ask them to pay an extra 10% to boot...

I mean you can spruce up the house and repaint the car, and slap some makeup on the girl..but what you gonna do with the diamond?? Recut it? Might as well look for another diamond...

People buy diamonds based on how great they look and the sparkle it produces...I bet you we interview 10,000 people on the street, and 9995 will pick the better looking stone with a horrific cut...
Weren't we saying to people if it "talks" to you, buy it???
Whatever happened to that??

In this instance, i have to disagree with you and say that a H&A that doesnt perform well is a waste of money regardless of the craftmanship...

Man, Jonathan if you were selling those, and i know you dont, your business would be as good as selling ice to eskimos..





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Quote this post and reply to it Post#85 @ 12-05-00 , 12:31 AM


Diamondbob Don`t put words into my mouth i didn`t say this.

Quoted by Diandbob:It does have an effect on the light performance but more importantly it has to do with the Quality of Workmanship. According to you if a diamond has three hearts,four arrows, five mishapen facets, six facets that don't point up and one off center culet but does give great light return then all those other things don't matter. Lets see, if I buy a new car that the windows don't roll up and there is a dent in the right door but the car runs great, should I not consider anything else?
Our customers are putting down good money for something that they will enjoy for the rest of their lives. Someone has sold them on how good the cut is because the diamond is the most beautiful they have seen. That cut includes Make and Proportions. If the stone has a sloppy make which is bad workmanship, it is not an Ideal cut diamond. If it is not an Ideal cut, it can't be a true hearts and arrows. If you think I am nitpicking, so be it. At least I can be proud of my A Cut Above diamonds and I know I am not pushing off 2nd quality diamonds off on an uneducated customer.
dimonbob

** I believe a hearts and arrows diamond should have all 8 complete hearts and all 8 complete arrows but they can vary sometimes. The way you go around nitpicking is like telling someone they don`t have a nose just because it differs from another. **


Brad








[Edited by Brad on 12-05-2000.]

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Quote this post and reply to it Post#86 @ 12-05-00 , 12:36 AM


This is what I specifically look for brodway, when I'm purchasing for inventory. The outstanding H&A's within their class.

Thats the ticket Jon...

Theres a difference even among the elite...Picking the best of the best is the trick...and you are right..thats where precision toys come into play...

If you are gonna pay the same amount of money for a H&A, might as well go for the best...



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Quote this post and reply to it Post#87 @ 12-05-00 , 12:53 AM



Re quoted :

It is very doubtful that all hearts and
arrows would have equal light return. I just ran three H&A`S diamond on the brilliancescope before I left work. All were different on light performance. I don`t think light performance can be determined solely on a hearts and arrows pattern although they are pretty to look at under the viewer.
Sometimes I think some get to freaky on the pattern and start nitpicking little things that have no effect on a diamonds light performance.


Johnny Boy
Well for one they are never identical to begin with, even in the brands proportions do vary from stone to stone. The facets vary too in size. Sometimes pavilion mains can be slightly different in size, placement , etc. Then there is the crystal which is obviously never the same. The key to the Hearts and arrows pattern is symmetry and this is only one element of diamond cutting, although an important one.

Brad



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Quote this post and reply to it Post#88 @ 12-05-00 , 10:41 AM


"** I believe a hearts and arrows diamond should have all 8 complete hearts and all 8 complete arrows but they can vary sometimes. The way you go around nitpicking is like telling someone they don`t have a nose just because it differs from another. **"

So this is or is not? How would you sell it Brad?

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www.eightstar.com







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Quote this post and reply to it Post#89 @ 12-05-00 , 02:44 PM


If it is missing a heart like the picture you put up I would tell them. I take photos of the stones for my customers and also show them in person. Full disclosure.

Brad


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Quote this post and reply to it Post#90 @ 12-05-00 , 03:58 PM


A quote from Brad "If it is missing a heart like the picture you put up I would tell them. I take photos of the stones for my customers and also show them in person. Full disclosure."

Let me get this straight. Lets assume for a moment that this stone is an ideal cut.

a. You are going to tell them it is ideal with hearts and arrows but it is missing a heart therefore a grade B or C H&A?
b. You are going to tell them it is ideal but not hearts and arrows because it is missing a heart?
c. It is a beautiful ideal cut diamond that is almost a hearts and arrows but it is missing a heart?
d. This is a beautiful ideal cut hearts and arrows diamond and you will give them a discount because it is missing a heart?

Did I miss something? If I had it I would tell the customer that is was a beautiful ideal cut diamond. There is nothing to disclose because it is not a hearts and arrows!

Also --- We all saw Garry Holloway's results of the three H&A's you ran on your scope that had "different light performance". I don't think you got from Garry what you were hoping for. They looked like pretty good performers although slightly different. I thought only politicians put SPIN on "The Truth". Maybe the honorable VP has been down in Florida to long.

Dimonbob www.whiteflash.com


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Quote this post and reply to it Post#91 @ 12-05-00 , 07:36 PM


A. No
B. YES
C. NO
D. NO

Bob quote :Also --- We all saw Garry Holloway's results of the three H&A's you ran on your scope that had "different light performance". I don't think you got from Garry what you were hoping for. They looked like pretty good performers although slightly different. I thought only politicians put SPIN on "The Truth". Maybe the honorable VP has been down in Florida to long.

What`s up ? What is it you think I was looking for ??? What are you saying ??????

Have a pleasant season


Brad


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Quote this post and reply to it Post#92 @ 12-05-00 , 09:49 PM




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Quote this post and reply to it Post#93 @ 12-05-00 , 10:16 PM


Ice,

You're not for sale? Shoot, I was saving up!

lawmax

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Quote this post and reply to it Post#94 @ 12-05-00 , 11:01 PM


The bottom line is if the stone was not a complete H&A, then it should be priced accordingly..

Theres nothing wrong with an ideal that is priced right...as long as the diamond still displayed superior visual characteristics..

Trying to pass it off as an ideal H&A, however, would be fraudelent.



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Quote this post and reply to it Post#95 @ 12-06-00 , 07:26 AM


<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>Originally posted by lawmax:
Ice,

You're not for sale? Shoot, I was saving up!

lawmax
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Shhhh! Lawmax! Son't repeat this, but the reason he's not for sale is that he's *free*!! Trust me. Just drop in and say, "Hi".

AGBF



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Quote this post and reply to it Post#96 @ 12-06-00 , 07:30 AM


<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Iceman:

What about the ugly girl thats good in bed?

The Iceman
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That's what I like about you, Ice. While others may falter, you always get to the *heart* of the question


AGBF reminding y'all that all cats are grey in the dark



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Quote this post and reply to it Post#97 @ 12-06-00 , 10:43 PM


Ice
I checked with one of Alpha's expert diamond cutters and he said it is entirely possible to get seven good hearts and one go missing. As he explains it, you put the first facet on and go around the pavilion putting them on as you go and when you get back to the first one and have even a very small percentage off, you have to make the last one and the first one match causing the angle to be slightly off and the heart to not show up the the scope. You can actually see it but it is not white like the other seven. I am not a diamond cutter, nor would I ever hope to be one. I also hope this explains it a little.

Brad
That is a funny looking H&A. Is that light leakage or steam?
dimonbob


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Quote this post and reply to it Post#98 @ 12-07-00 , 01:05 AM


Diamondbob..

Thats an interesting perspective..

A question pops into my mind having read your last post..

Is it possible to make a diamond lose beauty or light performance by trying to make it a perfect H&A..

In other words...can you screw up the diamond's great visual characteristics by trying to force it to be a H&A??



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Quote this post and reply to it Post#99 @ 12-07-00 , 12:18 PM


Garry
"H&A are a natural phenomena and require perfect symmetry."

Yes, that is true, sort of, but to be called a true H&A diamond, it needs to be an AGS Ideal cut First.

I do not deny that a H&A pattern can be found in a diamond that is not Ideal. I have not seen one but I will take your word for it. What I have been saying all along is to qualify as a H&A diamond IT FIRST HAS TO BE AN IDEAL CUT. FIRST!

If a diamond has a beautiful H&A pattern and the facets don't point up, it is a sloppy cutting job. If the star facets or the bezel facets are misshapen, it is a sloppy cutting job. I could go on. If the diamond is not cut correctly to begin with it cannot be in the running to qualify as a H&A "A Cut Above" diamond.
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