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Old Brad

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Quote this post and reply to it Post#226 @ 07-03-00 , 09:16 PM


I thought you might want to here what else he says since you guys always quote him. Should we believe what you say to be THE WHOLE TRUTH AND NOTHING BUT THE TRUTH.
Besides on this one I was taliking to BBecker. You`ve already seen it and didn`t like it when I posted it before. It was erased when this site was hacked.

You sure do seem hell bent on holding back
information. What is your problem. I`m not allowed to post now?

Listen I`m not on trial here and neither are you.You would have been thrown off the stand awhile ago. My job is not to disprove something just because you say so. You Don`t have any scientific facts either or I`m sure you would have provided them by now. So show me *your* scientific proof it does what it claims,after all you have had the firescope for 3 years.



Brad





[Edited by Brad on 07-03-2000.]

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Quote this post and reply to it Post#227 @ 07-03-00 , 09:36 PM


Rockdoc accused Brad of not including substantive research on the firescope in his postings. I pointed out-by quoting rockdoc's own words-that rockdoc knew quite well that Richard von Sternberg would not *allow* non-Eightstar jewelers like Brad to test the firescope. Rockdoc then wrote to me:

"AGBF

Why are you asking me? Why don't you ask Richard /Eightstar?"

Answer: I am asking you because you accuse Brad of not having done enough research while *you*,the darling of Eightstar, have been given all the tools you wish. Of course he can't compete! That's why he wanted Jonathan to keep posting data! Besides, I figure Richard is aware of what's going on here. I also think you have a lot of clout with Eightstar and that if you wished you could get them to share the firescope.

"It ISN'T my decision..."

And if it were, would you want to share? I think not. I think you like being the only one with the keys to the kingdom. The rest of the world has to await the release of *your* research. I also think Eightstar knows it will be favorable. Why else give the firescope to you and not to others?

"Joe Bacon was an independent lab gemologist, but he's decided to be an Eighstar dealer."

And your point is?

"Further, do you think the jewelers who have the Firescope that are dealers for Eighstar are deliberately misrepresenting themselves and the Eighstar Diamond?"

Why on earth not? Have they all been sainted?

"Sounds to me like you are not only challenging my credibility but that of some very fine people on the forum and elsewhere."

Call me suspicious. I've questioned the motives of better people than those posting here. I've questioned the motives of the likes of John F. Kennedy; Jimmy Carter; and a lot of other basically good men. I'm a very suspicious sort.

"These jewelers DO NOT hold a gun to a consumer's head and insist they buy an Eighstar."

Very true. They lie to the consumer instead.

"They simply show the scope and let the consumer compare for himself... and if the
consumer so chooses he buys one. If not, they all have alternative choices."

Wrong. They give a whole song and dance routine (see the Eightstar website) saying how everyone on earth reveres the Eightstar and they show incomplete quotations by experts who have evaluated the Eightstar.

"Painting Eighstar, myself and its dealers in this way defies common sense and reasonable
logic."

Does it? I think it is simply inconvenient for you.

AGBF






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Quote this post and reply to it Post#228 @ 07-03-00 , 09:41 PM


Does this mean that because Peter Yantzer says something its correct?
--------------------------------------------
RockO...
In all fairness, how do you quote a man for his insight on the perfection of an Eighstar and then say something like this?
At this juncture, it seems that theres no scientific proof for anything and all we have here are opinions....Theres nothing wrong with opinions though...They are like buttholes..We all have them and they all stink...
Hoping that October brings more reasonable explanations..




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Quote this post and reply to it Post#229 @ 07-03-00 , 09:58 PM


ag-

Remember, Brad refused his opputunity to have a firescope. So why complain now.

------------------
Respectfully,

JoeB
www.intellex.com/~bacon

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Quote this post and reply to it Post#230 @ 07-03-00 , 09:58 PM


I have never said DON'T buy any other thing that what I say it the best. I have consistently adviced consumers here on the forum to go and look, consider all their alternatives, and make the decision themselves, and if they needed more help to seek it.
---------------------------------------------
RockDock..
Ordinarily that would be the best way to make up ones mind...Go see a bunch of diamonds and see what you prefer best..
The problem that im seeing is that all the diamonds are being analyzed through the "eyes" of the firescope.
Im not saying this is good or bad..But we have no scientific proof that the firescope is actually the instrument that puts the end to all questions...Like you said, answers are not here yet..So until then, how does a consumer get an unbiased presentation if all the diamonds hes observing are being put through the scrutiny of the firescope?
I think theres something wrong with this picture...
Can you see where im coming from?



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Quote this post and reply to it Post#231 @ 07-03-00 , 10:03 PM


Jbacon Quote:ag-
Remember, Brad refused his opputunity to have a firescope. So why complain now.

------------------
Respectfully,

JoeB

_________________________ _________________

When was that ? I have never been offered a firescope period.

Brad


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Quote this post and reply to it Post#232 @ 07-03-00 , 11:03 PM


<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>AGBF: Johnny Boy writes that he supports my idea that someone *NOT* close to Eightstar do independent research on the firescope. He then says the person should be idoctrinated...I mean, trained...before he does this. Gee, why am I so suspicious of Eightstar? I say give the GIA and the AGS the damned machine and let *them* tell *us* what the blasted thing does. NOT vice versa!
What Johnny Boy suggests is like one side having a conference with the judge before a trial so that it can explain to him how to read the facts once he gets into the courtroom. YIKES!!!!!! No thanks. I say let GIA and AGS decide without the prior...uh..."training".<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Aha, I think there is some misunderstanding here (on my part). AGBF, in your first post on this subject you said you wanted someone independent to do more experiments with the FireScope and report the results. I interpreted this to mean that you wanted someone to use the FireScope to do experiments *on diamonds* and let us know what the diamond readings meant. Hence, my analogy about novices using the x-ray or ultrasound and giving us the interpretation of the images (not of the x-ray or ultrasound machine).

Now, I see that what you wanted is experimentation *on the FireScope itself*. Is this correct? If so, then I agree that qualified people from a respected lab like AGS or GIA study the device. I remember saying this in a post many months ago. If people want to critique the EightStar, they should critique the FireScope first since it's the basis of the EightStar. So far, I have not seen any independent study of the FireScope itself.

Hope this clears up the air a bit.

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Quote this post and reply to it Post#233 @ 07-04-00 , 07:24 AM


Brad,

Thanks for posting Peter's statements. They were very interesting. Do you know the chronological order of the statements? Did he say that the 8star was ...perfect cut.. and then the 2 that you reposted?

I guess we will have to wait for the TRUTH.
Wonder what the ICEMAN have to say about the 8star after his trip.

Thanks,
BBECKER

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Quote this post and reply to it Post#234 @ 07-04-00 , 11:13 AM


Peter Yantzer visited the eightstar facility in 1996. The post that I quoted was from 11/99.

Brad


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Quote this post and reply to it Post#235 @ 07-04-00 , 07:00 PM


Makes a lot of sense to me.....but I'm just a consumer.


DL

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Quote this post and reply to it Post#236 @ 07-04-00 , 08:04 PM


Rockdoc said to Brad:

"According to Eighstar you've never contacted them."

Why have you and Eightstar been discussing Brad?

A Girl's Best Friend




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Quote this post and reply to it Post#237 @ 07-04-00 , 11:27 PM



RockDaddy..
I like your last post very much..
It truly represents the independent status you work so hard to maintain..
I also think theres a lot of improving to come from both GIA and AGS..The more informed consumer will demand tighter grading reports..
The firescope may or may not be the next big discovery and gem grading tool...But its certainly good to know that you are keeping an open mind until the final facts come in..
Your thoughts seem to me like you are taking a step backwards to analyze further and ultimately enabling you the leverage to take 2 steps forward when all the studies are conducted on your part..
Thats the right way of doing it...
Way to go RockO...

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Quote this post and reply to it Post#238 @ 07-04-00 , 11:52 PM


Jonathan..
Hope youre having a happy 4th..
One of the things i forgot to mention was that the firescope indeed served as a great tool to test the clarity in stones..
When we scrutinized all those stones in your store, it was actually very easy to see inclusions in it even though the background was dark...
Thanx for bringing that up...

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Quote this post and reply to it Post#239 @ 07-04-00 , 11:56 PM


I have noticed how the firescope enhances the visibility of inclusions.
I was not aware that the Japanese use it in clarity grading.
I would love to learn from them on that.

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Quote this post and reply to it Post#240 @ 07-05-00 , 07:54 AM


Thanks for posting that technical reasoning. I'm still digesting it.


Hope you had a great trip to Prague. I did.

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Quote this post and reply to it Post#241 @ 07-05-00 , 10:13 AM


Hi Garry...

No steve and I are not the same person. Uh, which steve are you referring to?

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Quote this post and reply to it Post#242 @ 07-06-00 , 08:09 AM


Garry,
That is an interesting experiment. I have tried that, looking at a bow tie through the white paper and it did reflect white.

Here is another interesting experiment, and I wish I could take credit for it, but it was told to me by someone much higher up ^.
Stand in front of a big plate glass window. Do you see yourself in there? Does light also pass through it?

Jan



------------------
For those that want to know the TRUTH about diamonds, just ask me.

[Edited by Jan on 07-06-2000.]

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Quote this post and reply to it Post#243 @ 07-06-00 , 10:09 AM


Jan...

Ha-ha, I like that plate glass story.

I'm trying to follow the logic here so bear with me. With a plate glass, yes you can see your own reflection at some angles and light definitely passes through it. You can see objects on the other side of the plate glass. But this is not analogous to the bowtie, with the bowtie you see black, if light passes through shouldn't you see the background also?

Maybe another experiment is in order, put a marquise with a bowtie on a strong coloured background. If the bowtie is supposed to work like the plate glass, you should get some reflection as well as see the background. Right?

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Quote this post and reply to it Post#244 @ 07-06-00 , 10:39 AM


What I'm trying to say is that diamonds have an adamantine luster, so of course there is going to be some reflection. But that doesn't mean some light doesn't go through it also. I wonder what happens if you put a light on the top of the stone, does it come out the back? SteveL said he put a light underneath it and it flashed in his eyes.

Jan

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I Found This Old Thread Fascinating
Quote this post and reply to it Post#245 @ 05-10-02 , 11:17 AM



I went looking for the thread with the discussion about bending over counters and, in my travels, found this old classic. It's loooong, but I found it very amusing. Hope some new people who weren't around while it was going on do too!

AGBF

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Back to Rhino
Quote this post and reply to it Post#246 @ 05-11-02 , 08:41 AM



Since no one else plans to post to this thread, I am going to post again. This appears to be where Jonathan decides to become Rhino. It was well buried in this long thread. There are some *very* funny things in the thread if you wade through it for them!!!

AGBF, wishing to share this!!!


Quote:
A Girl's Best Friend :
I felt as if I were on the cutting edge of diamond research today and that, even if friendly rivals, the players were like the early members of the Royal Geographic Society who set out to find the source of the Nile!

Jonathan, don't get thin skinned *now*!! I appreciate your courage in taking and posting those photos for all the world to see. *THAT* is an honest quest for the truth. Brad made a joke, that's all. We have all been reading *RAVES* from bbecker, Diamond Lover, Holy Grail Seeker, and Brodway (sorry if I left anyone out) about your diamonds and your passion for educating the consumer. *NO ONE* could possibly believe Brad thought you had no good marquises in stock!

IMO his comment to you was like Lawmax saying (in response to *my* jibe at *her* about the length of time of her marriage) that she didn't know anyone as old as me (or whatever her actual words were).

When you *know* you have beautiful diamonds, how can you let that silliness get to you? Allison *is* younger than me, but *I* know that I'm OK at 49...and also that she was just kidding.

Please have some milk and cookies and come back to play later!! This was so *great* today!!!

A Girl's Best Friend


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Quote this post and reply to it Post#247 @ 05-11-02 , 10:14 PM


Quote:
A Girl's Best Friend :
What's LMBO? I thought I knew all the abbreviations like:

btw
otoh
roflmao
imo

Or is LMBO another of those furrin words?

AGBF


AGBF, I think LMBO may stand for "Laughing My Butt Off." I'm just speculating.

[Edited by empresseva on 05-11-02 at 10:14 PM]


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Let this thread RIP!!
Quote this post and reply to it Post#248 @ 05-11-02 , 10:18 PM


Quote:
A Girl's Best Friend :

IMO his comment to you was like Lawmax saying (in response to *my* jibe at *her* about the length of time of her marriage) that she didn't know anyone as old as me (or whatever her actual words were).

When you *know* you have beautiful diamonds, how can you let that silliness get to you? Allison *is* younger than me, but *I* know that I'm OK at 49...and also that she was just kidding.
A Girl's Best Friend
[/B][/QUOTE]

LMAO! I can't believe you felt the need to include this! O.k., I can...49 was a nice age, wasn't it?

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Dang!!!
Quote this post and reply to it Post#249 @ 05-11-02 , 11:37 PM


Quote:
lawmax :

LMAO! I can't believe you felt the need to include this! O.k., I can...49 was a nice age, wasn't it?


Dang, that gal is smart! How the heck did she figure it out!?

AGBF, very admirin'

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