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Old Serg
 
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Quote this post and reply to it Post#51 @ 10-06-00 , 04:23 PM


Sibelius,

We did not say that the diamond with 45 deg. pav. doesn't leak. We just only said that it is possible when the ray go out through the table completely and there are many such rays. Here is the picture illustrating light leakage for 45 deg. pavilion.


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Quote this post and reply to it Post#52 @ 10-06-00 , 04:25 PM


SteveL
It was a joke!
well I am a poor joke teller.
Sibelius
Have a good one

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Quote this post and reply to it Post#53 @ 10-06-00 , 04:33 PM


Serg,
I only wish I had more time to play with diamcalc! Thanks for clarifying the 45 degree pav diamond,
Sibelius

[Edited by Sibelius on 10-06-2000.]

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Quote this post and reply to it Post#54 @ 10-06-00 , 04:53 PM


SteveL,
Well, since you asked, I've seen this mentioned several times, even linked on this thread for example.


Quote:
Let me ask you... with Optical Symmetry like that are the external numbers even important to you? 100% light return baby! I do want to point out one thing though... when I took the pic of this stone it was not perfectly centered which is why some of the inner arrows look longer than others. Jon.


This link is on this thread that Canadian Eh put up. I just read it. But it isn't the first time I've heard mention of this. This was just the closest reference.


Brad






[Edited by Brad on 10-06-2000.]

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Quote this post and reply to it Post#55 @ 10-06-00 , 09:11 PM


StevL...

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>Have you been to the eightstar web site? It never said 100%, and I don't recall anyone in here saying that number either.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

This has got me confused? Isn't EightStar's mantra 100% light return? Okay, they don't mention 100% light return but rather they say no light leakage - which many people (rightly or wrongly) interpret also as 100% light return. I think Rhino uses those words as well.

Anyway, my point is that I understand that EightStar tries to achieve an optimal balance of the distribution of reflected light. They not only want to reflect back as much light as possible but also want to distribute it in a pleasing manner. You mentioned asking Richard about 100%, I assume this means about getting 100% light return upwards (perpendicular to table plane)? This would generate a mostly or all black FireScope image? Is this what you're talking about?

If so, then I would agree the diamond could look dark or dull because the observer's head blocks a lot of the light. And this ties in with what Serg said:

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>We want to note, that in this case (pavilion of 45 deg) most outgoing rays will have direction close to ingoing, that is the real reason of bad performance of such brilliants. An observer see dark brilliant generally because of reflection of the head
but not because of light leakage.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Am I on the right track?

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Quote this post and reply to it Post#56 @ 10-07-00 , 01:45 PM


Johnny Boy,

Rightly or wrongly, I was under the same impression about them having 100% light return. The no light light leakage claim is not entirely accurate either as Sergey have demonstrated. That's why I think it's better to refer it as edge to edge light return.
What it does have is the amount of light being returned is always greater than the light that leaked out/in from the bottom so the firescope image remains black, red, or pink through out the diamond when viewed from a perpedicular position to the table. The degree of light leakage should change depending on the angle you view it at. I suspect, the more angle you are, the more light leakage.

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Quote this post and reply to it Post#57 @ 10-07-00 , 08:37 PM


Canadian EH!...

I believe that the FireScope, like many other instruments, works on certain principles and was designed with certain assumptions. Understanding these principles and assumptions would allow us more insight into the FireScope image and what it can or cannot tell us.

I also bear in mind that the FireScope goes back more than 15 years. In that time we've seen a lot of progress in the study of diamonds and the tools used for such study. Chiefly, in ray tracing and modelling software like the one GIA used for their brilliance study and like DiamCalc. Even the FireScope can be and has been improved with the new GilbertsonScope.

I think the advances are in showing the entry and exit paths of light. There's new insight into viewing positions, light entry/exit angles, etc... and the relationship between these things. What theories will be proved right or wrong remains to be seen. The discussion is stimulating though.

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Quote this post and reply to it Post#58 @ 10-08-00 , 09:08 AM


Johnny Boy,

It certainly is interesting. A lot of new research seems to be coming out on diamonds. I can't wait to see what the new symmetry scope/Gilberson scope looks like and the new grading system (the whole system, that is).

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Quote this post and reply to it Post#59 @ 10-09-00 , 07:42 AM


Dear Rhino,
We agree with Canadian EH about origin of pink (mixture of red - light return and white - leakage).
This is the way to prove it.
Take two pictures of one diamond in Firescope.
One - usual position and usual conditions.
Second - make a little cone from black paper in size of diamond pavilion, put this cone to hole for diamond in Firescope tray, put the diamond there (all white is cutted off) and take the second picture.
Then compare.
Sergey and Yuri.

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Quote this post and reply to it Post#60 @ 10-09-00 , 02:34 PM


Rhino,
can you change the red disk to blue? and put a yeollow translucent paper under?
Do you see green?
Sibelius

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Quote this post and reply to it Post#61 @ 10-09-00 , 02:52 PM


Sibelius,

Enough green translucent paper under.


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Quote this post and reply to it Post#62 @ 10-09-00 , 03:01 PM


Serg,
red is strong colour and mixes badly.
There would be more nyances with Yeollow/blue.
Sibelius

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