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Old Topazz
 
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Quote this post and reply to it Post#1 @ 04-05-02 , 02:23 PM


I have several gemstone rings & have been wanting ga enuine Alexandrite ring for long time now. Since it is extremely rare, it is very expensive.
I have found one I love, 2.3cts, graded Fine Crystal which is between Clean & minor inclusions. From research I've done Alexandrites above 1ct are actually expected to have debri like & minor inclusions, it's typical for Alexandrite. (yes, I'm convincing myself).
I don't have photo.

2.3 cts genuine Alexandrite from Russia
set in 8g 14K yellow gold. Stone surronded by 22 3pt Top white VS diamonds.
Oh, and it has good color change from green to purplish.
Anyone have an educated approximate guesstimate how much maximum I should pay?
Thanks for nay help :-)

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color change?
Quote this post and reply to it Post#2 @ 04-05-02 , 02:41 PM


ooohhh, ooohhh, color changing rocks? Does it change color due to temp or is the color change already there and its a gradually shift in color from one side of stone to the next?

Quite obviously, I've not seen one and know nothing about it.

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pics?
Quote this post and reply to it Post#3 @ 04-05-02 , 03:21 PM


Now I've got more stones to look at.

Any chance you already have some pics of some of these chameleons in its various states of color change?

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Very difficult call...
Quote this post and reply to it Post#4 @ 04-05-02 , 03:27 PM


you can technically have a "genuine" Alex from Russia, and it could still be a synthetic stone...know who you are dealing with!

If it's a natural Russian stone, with good to excellent color change (very tricky to determine accurately without seeing the stone - pics can lie), and with few inclusions, I will go out on a limb and say that you will probably pay around $6-25K for the stone alone.

For some comparisions see, http://www.cherrypicked.com/treasur...em=1159&order=.

Regards,




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cont; Alexandrite ring I want ~Thai Gem
Quote this post and reply to it Post#5 @ 04-05-02 , 06:32 PM


Continued from my original post.
Thank you all,
I have been fooled before , bought a 8ct pendant set in solid 18K gold, gorgeous, supposed to be as he put it 100% natural from the earth.
But when I took it to a gemologist it turned out to be synthetic sapphire.
ANYWAY, the ring I am referring to would be coming from Thai Gem, anyone delt w/ them before? I know they are involved in the major gem shows across USA, so I figure they would be OK so buy from. Here is the photo, of the stone.



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Re: cont; Alexandrite ring I want ~Thai Gem
Quote this post and reply to it Post#6 @ 04-05-02 , 07:57 PM


Quote:
Originally posted by Topazz
I am referring to would be coming from Thai Gem, anyone delt w/ them before?


I was curious also about their quality, so i ordered a small sampling of stones..

"i got what i paid for... and there prices were very reasonable."

(hows that for diplomacy?) (S)

Bob





You should really see what you buy before you buy it

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Speaking of Color Change Stones
Quote this post and reply to it Post#7 @ 04-05-02 , 10:49 PM


I had dinner last Saturday with a woman who owns the most amazing jewelry. She had on an ENORMOUS (and I do not exaggerate here--it reached from knuckle to knuckle) antique oval color change sapphire. I had never seen anything like it before. It was vivid purple when her hand faced one direction and a stunning blue color when she turned her hand the other way. Apparently, they are pretty valuable and unusual in such large sizes. She said a jeweler in London offered her the equivalent of $175,000 for it on the spot! Alas, she was just shopping for another bauble, not looking to sell. It must be nice....

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Be Careful
Quote this post and reply to it Post#8 @ 04-06-02 , 12:15 PM


I have had several stones submitted for evaluation that were supposed to be alexandrites. One customer recently paid $2,000.00 and $2800.00 for two stones respectively from reputable sources and one was a synthetic corundum doped with vandium and the other was a synthetic alexandrite.

There are dealers from Brazil working the US right now who are selling these synthetics to retailers who are not experienced enough to know the difference. And are trusting the guys because they are from Brazil and established dealers. Then the retailers unknowingly turn and sell the synthetics to consumers...who trust their word since they are reputable jewelers.

So do not rely just on the excellent opinions here about your stone. Get it tested by a qualified gemologist. That is the only way you will ever be sure.

If you need a proper gemological identification you can have the stone sent to my office for evaluation. Identification cost is $25.00 plus shipping.

E-mail me for details at RobertJames@YourGemologis t.com.

(picture of a synthetic alexandrite showing diagnostic "rain" from http://www.YourGemologist.com)

Robert James FGA, GG
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[Edited by YourGemologist on 04-06-02 at 11:17 AM]

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OK, Thank you & one more question
Quote this post and reply to it Post#9 @ 04-06-02 , 01:21 PM


Yes, Thank you, I had planned to take to a licensed gemologist whom I have done business w/ before. The stone I took to him was supposedly natural Alexandrite, turned out to be a synthetic color change sapphire. So I know, I have been taken before. Now I just need to decide if it's worth taking the chance ,Since it will cost for the appraisal & stone ID.shipping ,etc.
Let's assume it turns out to be a natural 2.3ct stone 18k ring. Quality between Eye clean & VSI or even SI. Considering how rare the stone is, $637 would be good price?
If stone is anything less than natural or very bad quality by my gemologist's opinion, I for sure will send it back.
Once again. Thank you all for all your help & advice :-)

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Were you serious?
Quote this post and reply to it Post#10 @ 04-06-02 , 02:17 PM


Topazz,

$637.00 will not even pay the sales tax on a 2.3 carat natural alexandrite of even promotional quality.

Were you being serious with this? If so I can tell you already that something is either wrong with the stone, or someone sure has no idea of what they are selling.

Robert James FGA, GG
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Re: Re: Were you serious?
Quote this post and reply to it Post#11 @ 04-06-02 , 04:12 PM


Quote:
[i]Originally posted by rockdoc

Isn't it amazing how consumers want to believe the hype that many sellers splatter all over, and want deals that never make sense.

Rockdoc
[/B]


It is probably the same instinct that drives them to casinos or to play the lottery. More so i believe with purchasing which may be a throw back from when our ancestors were traders or hunters.. some primal need to trade?

some people are victims and some are preditors and usually in that situation, only one winner comes out of it..

he can't really go wrong and in this situation and could actually come out ahead... if he gets some good lesson from it and it only costs him 600 bucks. i'd say it was a pretty cheap lesson. may save him hundreds of thousands in the future. and it "could" actually end up being worth 15k? or maybe even 600 bucks.

For some people it can be hard to resist the golden "opportunity" of a lifetime!

it's like buying a lottery ticket, for a buck you get a chance to dream for a couple of days... for 600 bucks, you get a bigger thrill of really beating the odds and getting a 2+ct alex from a dealer who is selling it cheap! haha

I hope him much success at this... what is the saying, "it may be easier to thread a buffalo through the eye of a needle?"

Bob



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With no disrespect to Topazz
Quote this post and reply to it Post#12 @ 04-06-02 , 04:22 PM


Bill,

Isn't it amazing? I have virtually stopped posting answers to these questions because I just cannot believe that consumers believe all of this hype.

And you're right, once they realize that you cannot really buy a $25,000.00 alexandrite for $637.00...they expect the industry to protect them for free.
I really don't mean to irritate or be disrespectful to anyone but most time here on DT I scroll down the questions like this and say to myself as I scroll from screen to screen...

There goes a sucker..
There goes a sucker...
There goes a sucker...

Because you just can't get them to believe that they are being lied to until they get it between the eyes...

And yes....then they come to you, David Atlas, or me and expect free assistance. And get indignant when they have to pay to get out of the mess they created from being so gullible that P.T. Barnum would have hung a sign around their neck.

I have to admit I'm starting to agree with Bob...let 'em get burned once. Might do 'em good.

Robert James FGA, GG
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Quote this post and reply to it Post#13 @ 04-06-02 , 04:25 PM


Topazz was asking for some advice from the experts in a very pleasant manner. I think condescending remarks are not only uncalled for, but only resorts to hurt feelings. If she were an expert, she wouldn't be asking for advice.


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GIA...move your toes
Quote this post and reply to it Post#14 @ 04-06-02 , 04:46 PM


GIA,

I'm note sure who you are referring to. I tried to be very specific that I meant no disrespect to Topazz personally. If I was insulting to you Topazz....you have my formal and public apology.

But if we saved Topazz from blowing $637.00 on a misrepresentation......an d if it makes other consumers aware that these claims are rip-offs...well I for one won't apologize for that. There are some consumers out there really getting ripped off. And it's time something got their attention.

If that steps on your toes, GIA...then move your toes.

Robert James FGA, GG
http://www.YourGemologist.com

[Edited by YourGemologist on 04-06-02 at 03:48 PM]

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Quote this post and reply to it Post#15 @ 04-06-02 , 04:57 PM


While the customer clearly has responsibility (it is after all, her money) it's truly criminal that would-be sellers can even perpetrate such a scheme. The industry should really have tighter controls as to misrepresentation--deliberate or otherwise.

As GIA noted, if Topazz were an expert, s/he wouldn't be seeking advice.

.Px.

[Edited by Px on 04-06-02 at 04:10 PM]

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Quote this post and reply to it Post#16 @ 04-06-02 , 04:58 PM


No, YourGemologist I will NOT move my toes, YOU cannot and will NOT tell me what to do.

Funny how you got so defensive since I was NOT referring to you personally.

I have the outmost respect for those experts on DT who are patient and helpful to everyone on this board, newbies who know nothing and semi-experts who know a lot. One of the reasons I highly respect, Juan, Jonathon, Jan, Brad and Wink to name a few is that they patiently take time out to offer advice to those who don't know anything and they do so in a very nice NOT condescending manner. Like I said, that was not a statement directed towards you, but if you are feeling defensive then that's your perrogative. I am entitled to state my opinion.

My opinion stands, there are nice way to say things and there are mean ways to say things. Topazz was asking an innocent question, responses could have been much more tactful.


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Quote this post and reply to it Post#17 @ 04-06-02 , 05:16 PM


Alexandrite... clean 1.82ct top color change from Brazil will run for around 7000-9000 USD/ct retail...
Pictures: all pictures you see of color changing gems are "enhanced". It is impossible to get the daylight color on a photograph, neither regular nor digital... Instead of the green color, one will always get a purplish color... My personal experience photographing Alex and CC garnets...

Thomas H.
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Quote this post and reply to it Post#18 @ 04-06-02 , 05:24 PM


Not defensive at all, GIA. (how'd you get that name anyway?) Just wanted to make sure that Topazz did not feel that this was directed at her personally by any of the above.

PX is right...something should be done within the industry to stop this sort of thing. RockDoc and I have been heralding that cause for years with only limited result. The US Federal Trade Commission only says "We put the guidelines out there, it is up to consumers to be aware of them." And that is a direct quote from an FTC attorney to me over a gross misrepresentation that hurt of lot of consumers.

And GIA, the guys you mention here are certainly fine gentlemen who help out a lot. But RockDoc and I are talking about something you have missed..

We are talking about consumers who call up expecting free gemological evaluation of their purchase, free consultation to decide their course of action, and free phone calls, letters, and other efforts to try to help bale them out of a mess they should never have gotten into in the first place.

RockDoc and I have spent many hundreds, if not thousands, of hours helping people in the very scenario above...and then people expect it to be a free service since we are in the positions that we are.

That is the scenario that we were discussing.

And I would doubt that very many here have done that as much as we have. So until YOU fully understand where WE are coming from, why don't you back off a little bit.
You just might find that we do more to protect consumers than you give us credit for. And perhaps deserve to vent a bit without hearing your rightous indignation.

Robert James FGA, GG
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[Edited by YourGemologist on 04-06-02 at 04:25 PM]

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Quote this post and reply to it Post#19 @ 04-06-02 , 05:39 PM


Oh Please anyone reading this thread can see that you guys were referring to Topaz. When Bob mentioned "he can't really go wrong and in this situation and could actually come out ahead... if he gets some good lesson from it and it only costs him 600 bucks. i'd say it was a pretty cheap lesson." YOU responded with an "I have to admit I'm starting to agree with Bob...let 'em get burned once. Might do 'em good." In fact, Rockdoc's comment was because of your "Were you being serious about this" response to Topazz.

Obviously I've hit a sensitive nerve here. Don't blame me if you've been screwed by others. I was merely trying to defend Topazz since all she did was ask for expert advice. I think Thomas H and DiamondExpert handled it much more tactfully, they gave her advice, period.


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Quote this post and reply to it Post#20 @ 04-06-02 , 06:22 PM


OK GIA,

You win. You have shredded me with that rapier-like wit. But we were all indeed talking in general terms and not toward Topazz in particular. It was you who took up the cause and made it personal. (Why its your job to protect Topazz I don't know)

However, notwithstanding your position as "Defender of the Weak", when you find that you have been ripped off for $5,000.00 on a stone worth $50.00, let me know how tactful of a expert you will want on your side.

If you're like all the other consumers who call me when they have been ripped off, you'll be looking for someone to rip the bad guy's throats out.

And both RocDoc and myself have and can do it, we're just tired of people wanting us to do it for free. That was our original point...nothing more.

Robert James FGA, GG
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Quote this post and reply to it Post#21 @ 04-06-02 , 06:24 PM


Quote:
Originally posted by GIA
When Bob mentioned "he can't really go wrong and in this situation and could actually come out ahead... if he gets some good lesson from it and it only costs him 600 bucks. i'd say it was a pretty cheap lesson."


And you didn't think that was tactful?

Heres a thought... suppose the seller of this stone really doesn't know what it is worth. Don't you think that topazz buying it for 600 dollars when it may be worth 25k just a little bit tooo excessive in the profit? is the risk vs reward out of balanced?

does topazz as a buyer have any more or less of a moral responsibility than the seller?

I think topazz was not offended by my response to her or him. I hope not anyway.

I have a question for Topaz... supppose your gem friend says he will give you 30k if you can procure it... will you still buy it for 600 dollars?

bob

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Quote this post and reply to it Post#22 @ 04-06-02 , 06:48 PM


Bob Brucker,

Your response was tactful, I was not talking about you. I merely quoted you because of a response made to your comment. I think your advice to Topazz was sound and I do not think she would have been offended by your comment.

YourGemologist,

Obviously we disagree. You do not have to resort to insults to win this arguement. But if that's the only tactic you have, then I have nothing further to say to you.



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Quote this post and reply to it Post#23 @ 04-06-02 , 07:04 PM


Geez, GIA, I said you win. Nobody has insulted you. What's your problem? You came into here like you were just looking for a fight.

RocDoc, Bob, and I were merely commenting on events regarding consumers lacking awareness, based on the request from Topazz. Nobody said anything derrogatory about Topazz. If we had I am sure Topazz is well prepared to take care of him or herself. And would have said so..

Chill out, take a red, kiddo. This was not near the deal you made it out to be. You were locked and loaded when you showed up.

Robert

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Quote this post and reply to it Post#24 @ 04-06-02 , 07:12 PM







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Quote this post and reply to it Post#25 @ 04-06-02 , 07:26 PM


I knew the red would help you...

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