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sydlaf 01-12-06 07:48 PM

Was I cheated???
 
I recently purchased a diamond ring while in Mexico. After returning I got 2 different appraisals. Almost nothing matched between all 3 pieces of information. How can this be?? And was I cheated or not????

Information on sales slip:
One ladies ring set in 14 Karat yellow gold
Center stone: Diamond
cut: Marquise
carat: .71
color: I
clarity: VS1
Side stones: 2 Diamonds
cut: Marquise
carat: .62
clarity: SI1/SI2
Price: $3650


Appraisal #1 from a jeweler
One ladies ring set in 18 Karat yellow gold
Center stone: Diamond
cut: Marquise
Measurement: 9.05 x 4.70 x 2.30
carat: .61
color: G-H
clarity: SI1
Side stones: 2 Diamonds
cut: Marquise
carat: .50
color: light yellow
clarity: SI2
Retail Replacement Value: $2597.00


Appraisal #2 from IGI:
One ladies 18 karat yellow gold mounting
Center stone: Diamond
cut: Marquise shape brilliant cut
measurement: 9.10 x 4.70 x 2.40
carat: .65
depth: 51.1%
table: 57%
girdle: medium to very thick, faceted
cutlet: none
polish: good
symmetry: good
clarity: SI1/SI2
color: colorless/near colorless (F-G)
fluorescence: none
Side stones: Diamond
cut: marquise shape brilliant cut
measurement: 6 x 3.4 x 2.2
carat: .275 each
color: slightly tinted
clarity: I1/I2
polish: good
symmetry: good
Retail Replacement Value: 4,450.00

Thanks,
Sydni

sparkleluv 01-12-06 10:05 PM

Re: Was I cheated???
 
Just my humble guess, but neither the appraiser nor the IGI took the ring apart to evaluate the diamonds, did they? A stone in a ring is hard to measure (especially a marquise shape with the tips covered with prongs), impossible to weigh and impossible to accurately evaluate for color or clarity (since color can be affected by the setting and yucky spots can be hidden under prongs). Without disassembling the ring, the folks you had look at the ring were making educated guesses. With that in mind, they don't disagree too horribly with each other... What matters is do you like the ring, and are you comfortable with the price you paid?

ssjewels 01-14-06 02:48 PM

Re: Was I cheated.
 
My 2cents says you did not get a good deal at all, and even though the 2 places that appraised your ring didn't do it loose, if the stone is under 70pts. you really paid way to much. The price per carat on diamonds changes at 70pts. by a large amount of money. As for your original purchase this will answer your question of if you got good deal.
1.01ct. I VS2 EGL certified Marquise diamond $2700.00. That is what we sell it for. If the stone is under 70pts. then we sell a 64pt. F SI1 for $830.00.

Hope this helps.

Steven

ssjewels 01-15-06 12:18 AM

Re: Was I cheated???
 
Thanks for your imput.
As for the price of the diamonds I quoted, both of them, I will say that I stand behind both of them. The 64pt. from what I remember offhand(I am home now) is a little deep but not much. The 1.01ct is a very nice stone and if anyone thinks it is too cheap you can purchase it and see for yourself. I have been doing this for over 20 years and I am VERY good at grading diamonds, with certificates or not. I would put my grading reputation up against anyone who would like to challenge it. There are 2 reasons these stones are priced at what they are, one, I bought them at a good price so I will sell them at a good price. Next, as anyone in this business knows, Marquise shapes are not selling very well and to tell you the truth I have a lot of them and want to sell them. If any one reading this is looking for marquises' ask away, my diamonds all come with a complete money back guarantee if anyone is not happy with the deal they received.
To tell you the truth, I find it hard to believe that I do not sell my stones faster than I do considering what I am selling them for. I believe one of my sites has about 6 or 7 of them for sale at 60% off rap. If anyone doesn't believe me I will be more than happy to put my money where my mouth is.

Thanks,
Steven

sydlaf 01-15-06 09:22 AM

Re: Was I cheated???
 
Thanks for the input. I bought the ring from Diamonds International while on a cruise. The center stone was purchased as a loose diamond, I then chose a setting and had it mounted by DI. The appraisers did not take it out of the setting. The cruiseship had a buyer's guarantee. However, since the IGI appraisal was more than what I paid. I'm not sure if they will stand by the refund based on the fact I did not get the quality diamond I thought I was getting. I am going to call them tomorrow.

I do love the ring. But, $3600 dollars is a lot of money for me and I really feel misinformed by the "shopper Dan", the cruise employee who give shopping talks on the ship. He so encouraged everyone to buy diamonds and silver because it is sooooo much cheaper than in the states. My husband and I felt very confident we would not be cheated. It was not our plan before going to buy a ring, but we were so excited about getting a good deal. We did barter for awhile to get the price we did. I just wish I had known more before I made the purchase. More than the loss of money, I hate feeling taken advantage of.

sydlaf 01-15-06 09:26 AM

Re: Was I cheated???
 
I forgot to add...appraiser #1 said if the stone had been VS1, it would have been an additional $1400.00 on her quote.

ssjewels 01-15-06 10:10 PM

Re: Was I cheated???
 
I know that I am new to these boards, and I am also trying to educate customers. I see misrepresented stones everyday and I think customers should get what they pay for at a fair price. Your analogy that GIA grades something and other labs give it lessor grades is no excuse, either the diamond is an H or it isn't. I would like to say the other labs should be held to the same standards as GIA and if they don't then customers should buy diamonds with their reports. Also, retailers should not stand for it either, I know it is hard to say and do that especially if it is your stone involved.
Any lab or person that grades an I colored diamond a K should not be in this business and no customer should have to accept that as reality or even being fair.
As for my marquise, when I get to work on Tuesday I will get you a picture and the details, the diamond is from 20 years ago.

Steven

denverappraiser 01-16-06 10:03 AM

Re: Was I cheated???
 
The DI return policy is tough to comply with but if you comply with the terms they will do it. Read it carefully. Assuming that you are still within the deadline, the IGI appraisal will probably qualify you because the clarity grade differs by 2 grades. Notice, by the way, that they called the color 2 grades better than the salesperson. Assuming that the jeweler sells jewelry, they don’t meet the DI qualifications for an appraiser.

The endorsement of the cruise director is a paid advertisement by someone who doesn’t even claim to know anything about jewelry. It deserves the same level of reliance as Tiger Woods’ opinion of what’s the best kind of car.

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ISA NAJA

sydlaf 01-16-06 12:11 PM

Re: Was I cheated???
 
I just spoke with the PPI group that offers the buyers guarantee on cruise purchases. With the documentation I have, they will take my ring and DI will replace the diamond with the correct clarity and color that I thought purchased.

Recap...IGI carat (.65) color(F-G) clarity (SI1/SI2), sales slip carat (.71)color (I) clarity (VS1)

Question?? If I change, the new diamond will go down in color but up in clarity. Should I do this????

Bluetful 01-16-06 02:59 PM

Re: Was I cheated???
 
I have been an appraiser for over 20 years and I have rarely (if ever) seen a "deal" that someone has purchased either on a cruise or in the carribean. It is never a good idea in my opinon and even if it costs a bit more to purchase from a local and reputable jeweler or dealer, it is far worth it! That said, when a diamond is being evaluted in a piece of jewelry, the appraisal should state clearly that the "diamond is graded insofar as mounting permits". Unless a diamond is loose, the grades and weights are always estimates. Also, I wouldn't pay alot of attention to the actual value placed on the ring. It is the grades that are most important. Values can differ while grading can be similar. I know it sounds strange but it true. And, without an independant diamond certificate, the appraisal is the opinon of the appraiser, hopefully it is one based on experience and education. I would agree to push for a refund. You never know what they will send you next.

Good luck,

Karen
GIA Graduate Gemologist

BrianKnox 01-16-06 03:27 PM

Re: Was I cheated???
 
Karen,

Welcome to the forum, your post is full of excellent advice, and your observations regarding the "deals" on cruises mirrors mine.

sydlaf, I have to say that I agree with Karen's and others advice of going for the refund.

Brian

denverappraiser 01-16-06 04:01 PM

Re: Was I cheated???
 
I would again direct you to carefully read the terms of the guarantee for an explanation of how they handle this situation. Remember, your credit card company is your friend. So is the cruise line. J

What I would expect them to offer you is a 0.71-I-VS1 with a ‘certificate’ issued by IGI. This may or may not be an improvement over what you currently have.

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ISA NAJA

ssjewels 01-16-06 11:44 PM

Re: Was I cheated???
 
I agree with Denverappraiser, the credit card company is definitely on your side and you have a good point on whether the new stone will be nice at all much less a better looking stone than the one you have. I would go for the refund also. If you tell your credit card company that they admitted making a mistake, maybe they will fight for you.

Good Luck,
Steven

ssjewels 01-18-06 02:37 PM

Re: Was I cheated???
 
To all who questioned the 2 Marquise diamonds I mentioned at the beginning of this thread.

I have posted both of them for sale at my webstore(ssjewels) here so you can see them for yourself. I have nothing to hide and if anyone wants to see one of them in person, I will make arrangements for them to do so.
I want EVERYONE to know that I might not be the smartest jewelry person in the world, but whatever I say or offer I am prepared to back it up with the product promised. If anyone would like to look at these 2 stones and tell me there is something wrong with them and that is why they are so cheap I am willing to listen. However if you look at the pictures of them they are pretty good looking and I don't think they are deficient.


Steven

ssjewels 01-18-06 05:20 PM

Re: Was I cheated???
 
1 Attachment(s)
David,
First, after what just happened at GIA I would not hold them up as the most accurate place always. as for EGL-USA they have gotten much better in recent times and for every diamond you show me they misgrade, I will show you a GIA diamond that is misgraded. Just because they grade something say an H SI1, it doesn't mean it is automatically not that grade.
As for my Marquise, it is 64pts. F SI1 and I put it up for sale at my webstore for $830. It does not have a certificate, it is by my personal grading. If you look at the picture of the stone you can see it is very white and there are no inclusions very visible even though the picture is magnified 6x. So I would say I was not inaccurate but telling the complete truth. I have never sold a stone in my years of business, certified or not certified that was returned to me for poor grading so I am pretty confident that my grade will stand up.
I have enclosed a picture of the diamond for all to see and judge for themselves.

Steven

Captfun 01-19-06 02:07 AM

Re: Was I cheated???
 
Diamonds graded by anyone other than GIA or AGS will trade for a significant discount. Use your own logic to figure out why.

GIA and AGS are the industry standards. Period. David is, again, quite right.


stephen mickam G.G., G.J.

Captfun 01-19-06 02:23 AM

Re: Was I cheated???
 
And another thing . . . Posting a picture to show color or clarity? On my flat panel, that marquise looks like a Grayish Very Slightly Greenish Blue. Not a damned thing like an F. On someone else's it might look like a facy pink.

With 20 years of diamond grading?

ssjewels 01-19-06 11:49 AM

Re: Was I cheated???
 
Maybe your montor needs adjusting. Shall I post all the GIA stones that are graded incorrectly? What about GIA's recent scandal of people paying for better grades. How many hundreds of stones were done like that? First, I could care less who graded a diamond it should be accurately done by whoevers name is on the certificate. But for all you people that knock EGL, why don't you open a lab and see if you can do better than them. They have been in business for a very long time and if they were so bad they would not be in business anymore.

Its funny this thread started because someone bought a diamond that was supposed to be an H and it turned out to be a K but no one but me told the customer to fight for her money back and that it was wrong to be treated that way, but when I post a diamond that is too cheap for all of you, your only reply is it must be graded wrong or it wasn't GIA certified. It appears you are all more interested in sticking up for GIA than a customer. I will send my stone to GIA and if they decide to send it back to me in less than 5 weeks I will post the results on this board.
If I am wrong I will apologize, if not well lets see.


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